Odd bit of "news", for one reason - the flip was called long ago, but the "news" is that Sully thinks anyone with an IQ over 40 would believe he's still cogitating on his choice.

Drama Queen is right - guys like him are the reason that guys like me dislike his brand of phlegm-wad gay sophistry. If you've got something to say, say it, Andy.

We already know you're gay, even though we don't care and don't really feel smarter when you harpishly remind us. And if your readership goes down after you "come out for Kerry" (I only visit there when Ace links him, meaning, "not too damned often"), well that's tough shit. No, dear, you won't be able to honestly make some effete claim of infringement of your First Amendment rights then, either.

i am loath to use the term "faggot", but....

i wish this faggot would stop his namby pamby drama and get on with it. summon up the old testosterone and quit with the case of the vapors.

i mean, really, my girlfriend goes through shit like this about which fucking dress to buy. get over it, grow a pair, and take a stand. so you like tax cuts and the wot, but gay marriage is the crux issue for you?

fine, then stop being such a stereotypical afraid-to-confront-difficulty fag and just say so.

Come on, stop with all of that. It's not necessary and it just makes this site and its readers look bad.

I'm not above a cheap shot, but there's no need for cheap shots when you're winning the fight.

Hear, hear.

FWIW I only pop over to Andrew when the worthwhile suspects link him. I don't GAF about the guy's personal habits, but the Federal Marriage Amendment? Give me a break, if Queer America can't cope with a little rejection for the symbolic defence of straight values they should just grow up a little.

That or migrate to Sydney, which will never notice the difference.

It makes me glad I never started reading his crap.

Am I the only one who couldn't care less?

I'll tell you when I had my Sullivan moment. He doesn't drive, but sees no problem with raising the gas tax. Can you say 'disconnected'? Used to be a big fan, but no more.

In retrospect, the gas tax thing SHOULD have been a giveaway. I'm looking back now and realizing all the rather ridiculous, unconservative positions Sullivan's taken recently and it's all falling together. Has anyone read Sine Qua Non Pundit's recent post (June 12th), on how Sullivan's recent accusation that Bush can't condemn Chinese torture because he is now irreparably stained by Abu Ghraib, echoes typical Leftist tropes? I just saw it last night, but such writing is really a dead giveaway.

As I predicted, by the way, his rationalization only makes him look worse than before. What a disingenuous jerk.

(Let's keep slurs out of this by the way, francisthegreat. And thank you, Ace, for keeping the tone elevated above that.)

I'm over the betrayal, by the way. At least Instapundit seems like a decent chap!

Here's the post from Charles Austin (aka Sine Qua Non Pundit) that I was talking about. Nothing you probably haven't put together already, Ace, but rather revealing nonetheless:

http://sinequanon.spleenville.com/archives/006946.php

Well, I'm beyond betrayal. I'm angry now. And man, when I'm angry, watch out: I slice like a fucking hammer.

Ace called it. Sullivan is a sorry wretch.

I've known Ace from the latter days of the old Fray. He's not always pleasant, but damn he's smart.

Glad to see that he's kicking butt on his blog.

Wonder why, instead of titling his response "I'm not voting for Bush", he titled it "Jonah on Bush (and me)" and "The Marriage Thing"? (Quoting only the part about fiscal conservativism in Jonah's other item? Then interspersing the response to Jonah with an e-mail about fiscal conservatism?) Wait, I can guess. If I was Sullivan, I'd probably want to downplay this, too.

Quick question, if no one minds. Who the heck is Sullivan anyway? Okay, he's a pundit that a lot of people seem to read. I've seen one editorial article by him, but other than that, no clue what his credentials are or why he thinks he's important. What has he ever done to make someone like me think his opinions are worthwhile, except for expressions his opinions online?

Dirge,

Sullivan was editor at The New Republic, and a frequent writer for the NYT Magazine. He caught the attention of many surfers after 9/11 when he was a vocal advocate for a strong American response. He also exposed and villified the blame-America-first crowd. He was even banned from further NYT articles by Raines, presumably for exposing their anti-war bias.

He was one of the highest traffic warblogs during Afganistan and the lead-up to Iraq. He always had some comments about gay issues along with the rest of the stuff. Sometimes about the imposed leftist orthodoxy in gay political culture, sometimes about conservative attacks on gays or gay agendas.

What starting losing him readers (at least me and a couple of my friends) was that the gays posts started to swamp out all the other stuff. It became a nonstop dialog on gay marriage. OK, not a dialog, but somewhat of a rant. Which is fine, but not something I feel particularly strong about. Certainly not enough to scan through post after post looking for some unreported news from the war on terror front.

Good call, Ace. When you first brought up the Sullivan Flip Watch, I thought you were reading too much into his actions.

When was that first post, btw? February?

Dirge,

Andrew Sullivan is a British ex-pat, he trained at Oxford, holds a Ph.D. from Harvard, was editor of the National Review (at age 28?) and had been a fairly frequent contributor to the NYT as well as the London Times as well as other prominent publications.

His bona fides are just that. His bio can be found on his website: here

And Ace,

Your points are well taken, but I don't fully agree. It may be that despite Sullivan's principled and effective moral stance on the war against Islamofascism, that his personal convictions for gay marriage/gay rights trumps any other consideration with regard to his choice for president. That is his calculus and he is certainly entitled to it. It does not imply, or suggest, to me anyway, that his stance on the war had been a ruse or ploy all-along. This is nonsensical if not risible.

As far as gay marriage goes, I think the GOP is making a terrible mistake by pushing for an a constitutional amendment. Sullivan here too, has put forth a well reasoned, and to my mind, correct analysis of the issues. Whatever constitutional amendment is brought forth, will in every likelihood, be unconstitutional. This is the bugaboo for the GOP. Whereas judicial fiat as was the case in Massachusetts is not to be tolerated, the truth appears to be that the FMA could not honestly pass judicial review.

"It's just the fucking way it is".

Yes, the GOP can argue its support in defense of hetero-marriage, the family, all good things, indeed. They can even voice their opposition and through the states find some way to prevent gay-marriage, if they so choose. But a constitutional amendment is a loser and should be dropped.

Dirge et al,

ROTFLMAO!

Did I really write National Review?

Holy Shit! What a Freudian slip that must be!

The New Republic

Sorry, loose shit.

Awhile back, Horsefeathers was conducting a contest on when Andrew would endorse Kerry. I need to go double check my pick!

First time visitor, I got linked here from Allah. I like your blog. :)

This is what so many people don't see about Sullivan, and what caused me to stop reading him a year ago.

For Sullivan, the gay thing trumps everything else. Its the ultimate in selfishness. It doesn't matter if Kerry is a lying sack-o, it doesn't matter if his policies would get thousands or tens of thousands killed here and abroad, it doesn't matter if the left would eviscerate our military, enact taxes that would kill our economic recovery, and enact all manner of absurd nonsensical policies. Gay is all that matters, its the be all and end all. He's like Clinton in this way, in his narcisism. Me, me, me. I, I, I.

I used to be confused by Sullivan's attitude, now he disgusts me. His "I am politically pure" crap is a lie and he well knows it.

Gosh, I hate to hate to rain on your parade, MeTooThen, but an amendment successfully made to the Constitution cannot be unconstitutional, ipso facto. It is precisely because the "full faith and credit clause" will likely trump the federal Defense of Marriage Act, allowing the narrowest majority of the Massachusetts Supreme Court to impose homosexual marriage on the entire country, that the FMA is considered necessary to permit Americans to defend "hetero-marriage, the family, all good things, indeed" and "voice their opposition and through the states find some way to prevent gay-marriage, if they so choose."

I'm afraid that your argument is precisely "bass-ackwards" to "the way it ... is."

If gay marriage is your issue, then by all means, vote Kerry. That's right, put in office a man who has a long history of political nuance (read: inaction) and gutting military and intelligence capability. Put in office a man who will require us to get UN permission to deploy our troops anywhere other than Oklahoma.

And then when the Islamofascists keep blowing up Americans, on American soil, of what use will your right to gay marriage be? And should the terrorists get their way, and impose a radical Islamic theocracy in America, what do you think they will do about your right to gay marriage?

Seems like sacrificing the War on Terror to the gay marriage issue, you lose both.

To the "unconstitutional constitutional amendment" comment....

The court would have NO power to strike down a constitutional amendment as unconstitutional. An FM LAW very well could be knocked down, but once it's made an amendment, it's IN the constitution, and by definition cannot be unconstitutional.

Put another way, if the Congress decided to repeal the 1st amendment, or the entire bill of rights for that matter, and they got the requisite number of state legislatures to ratify it, the Bill of Rights would be, quite simply, gone.

That's why the Founders made it such a huge, huge hassle to change the constitution...It could, theoretically, be voted out of existence by the people.

MeTooThen,

gnostic surface is right on point: Once the Constitution is amended, the amendment becomes part of the Constitution itself and cannot be declared unconstitutional. This is the reason it was necessary to amend the Constitution to prohibit slavery, to grant citizenship to all native-born persons, to grant women's suffrage, to impose the income tax, etc.; the Congress could not accomplish these things permanently simply by passing a law.

Regarding the Full Faith and Credit Clause, the Supreme Court of the U.S. and those of the several States have recognized in the past that a State is not obligated to recognize public acts (statutes) or judgments of another State which are contrary to the public policy of the State in which credit is sought.

For instance, Georgia, where I live, enacted its own version of the Federal Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, which act expressly declares it to be the public policy of the State of Georgia "to recognize the union only of one man and one woman," prohibits same-sex marriages in Georgia and declares that same-sex marriages licensed in another State or foreign jurisdiction "shall be void" in Georgia.

Notwithstanding the clarity of Georgia's public policy on this issue, the Georgia Supreme Court could very well decide one day that the public policy itself is unconstitutional under either the State or the Federal Constitution. The only way to ensure that the courts, both State and Federal, respect the will of the people is to ratify these amendments, no matter how difficult it may seem or how long it may take.

Georgia's is on the ballot for ratification this Fall.

OK, Sullivan has officially jumped the shark...He's dragged Goldberg's mother into it. He posts a anti-gay screed that someone on Lucianne's site put up, then breathlessly declares that "Lucianne monitors" the site, so she clearly ENDORSES what this unknown poster said. You following me?

Because Lucianne monitors her site and someone put up a nasty post, that means that Lucianne is a fag basher. Since Lucianne is a fag basher, her spawn Jonah too must be a fag basher.

SO! We have conclusively proven that Jonah Goldberg is a homophobe, and can ignore anything further he has to say about Andrew's hypocracy.

Got it?

I haven't seen our buddy Andrew's blue homepage screen on my computer in months. Since shortly after March 4, to be precise. See, that's when Multnomah COunty Oregon started issuing gay marriage licenses. I read a few posts after this started (and I was fighting it in court) nad I could simply not believe the strident change in Sully's position. Yes, he actually changed positions on gay marriage, since first he said that civil unions were fine.

His new, hardcore, gay activism combined with a long-ago dig at Charles Johnson and LGF just turned me completely off to his brand of narcissistic, infantile philosophy. I'm a bit of a single issue voter myself (guns), but I recognize that widespread gun ownership strengthens society as a whole, it's not just my own preferences etched into stone. With Sully (and for the record most gay activists) it is simply the personal qua political.

I revel in the fact that he's finally getting "outed" (pun intended) for what he really is---a liberal gay activist who has the limited ability to see an Islamofascist movement as threatening to gays. Apparently the muslims aren't a big enough threat to gays anymore, or Sully just doesn't care about the fate of the western world so long as he can be "married" to his boyfriend.

*Hack-ptuie.*

I stopped reading Sullivan MONTHS ago, when I realized he was a stalking-horse for Kerry-- all the pretense conservatism was a cover to throw the whole blog over to Kerry when the election got close.

I too first started reading Sullivan after 9/11 and really enjyed his blog. However like other posters here I stopped checking his blog out when it just seemed to be one gay issue after another.

Sullen Sully's definitely pulling a Moby on Bush, and since he's such a prominent blogger, his is the Mother Whale of all Mobys. I just wish he hadn't been such a Dick about it.

Homophobe.

LOL

Brad, Fox and GS,

Your comments are well received and thank you.

I didn't make myself clear (what else is new?).

Yes, I appreciate the fact an amendment once made is made, good, bad, or otherwise.

My point, was (and is) that this amendment, whether or not is is eventually ratified, as a law (IMHO) strikes me as unconstitutional.

The role of the State to protect marriage, family structure, regulate insurance, inheritance, etc. are all without dispute. How exactly to define, regulate, enforce these social structures is worthy of debate.

My view is that changing the constitution, in this way, is bad for the GOP, and bad for the nation.

And yes, I agree with hobgoblin, that narcissistic entitlement governs much of decision making, but in reality, it is not limited to Andrew Sullivan, it is present in every PAC, advocacy group, and party. In this case, your calculus differs with his. And I am not saying Andrew Sullivan is correct. You are free to disagree with him, contest his positions, stop reading his blog, etc. But it is disingenuous to suggest that his is the only narcissism.

I've been reading Sullivan for about a year. What made me wonder about him was his obvious admiration for Howard Dean. He seemed excited about Dean, said we needed someone like him so we could have an open debate on the Iraqi war..as if there already isn't "debate". Than the blue funk he sunk into over the Abu Grabe prison abuse. The hand-wringing was so bad, I e-mailed him and suggested someone needed to give him a good slap in the face to snap him out of his hysteria.

I think this is the end of the road for me. I'm tired of sifting through all the Gay stuff to find something interesting...and it turns out, that interesting stuff isn't his honest opinion.

I picked up a copy of Time Magazine...Time's 100 Most Influential Americans of All Time, or something like that. Sullivan wrote bios for a bunch of politicians who made the list, and he worked a gay slant into every single one. Alright, Andy, we know you're gay. We get the picture. But Barry Goldwater's support of "gay rights" isn't exactly why he got into the mag.

Gosh, I hate to hate to rain on your parade, MeTooThen, but an amendment successfully made to the Constitution cannot be unconstitutional, ipso facto. It is precisely because the "full faith and credit clause" will likely trump the federal Defense of Marriage Act, allowing the narrowest majority of the Massachusetts Supreme Court to impose homosexual marriage on the entire country...

I'm afraid that your argument is precisely "bass-ackwards" to "the way it ... is."
****

That's incorrect. The courts have made it quite clear that marriage is not a type of "public acts, records and judicial proceedings" recognized in the full faith and credit clause (although divorce is; weird, eh?). States do currently recognize other states' marriages as a matter of courtesy and comity.

I still remember the relentless beating Andrew Sullivan gave the New York Times for so many weeks. In fact, watching the NYT get pounded within an inch of its life by Sullivan and other bloggers was one of the main spurs to my interest in blogs early on.

The evidence is on the side of the writers who say that Sullivan's been hiding his position on Bush. More importantly to me, he's been a wuss about the Abu Ghraib incident, which I thought had been occasioned mostly by our government's too-great mercy in leaving our enemies alive in the first place. But nobody who helped trample the reputation of the New York Times the way Sullivan did can be thought to be simply a leftist masquerading as center-right. Or at least it remains to be explained how it can be that simple.

The word many of you are leaving out is narcissist. He wants what he wants right now and his wants are more important, frankly, than your life.

"The word many of you are leaving out is narcissist. He wants what he wants right now and his wants are more important, frankly, than your life. "

Wow, addison, that's harsh. I don't believe that he thinks that his wants are more important than our lives.

Sullivan is lying, of course.

But I am beginning to think that maybe he did mean what he wrote to K. Lopez about trying to figure out who "the better candidate" is. Maybe he made up his mind that he couldn't endorse Bush, but really was hoping to endorse Kerry. Maybe he was saying that, even though he personally couldn't endorse Bush, Bush might otherwise clearly be the "Better" candidate. I think he's been trying, desperately, to find ways in which Kerry stacks up - on the economy, the WOT, etc - so he can feel better about not endorsing Bush. Maybe at the time he wrote that, though, he thought he might have to sit this out. If he does endorse no one, that's an implicit admission that Bush is, in his view, the better candidate.

I think this may be what he meant at the time - that he wrote sloppily, had no plan to endorse Bush, but was still uncertain who, objectively, is the better candidate. I don't think he can admit this now. I don't think he wants to say that so directly - after all, the blog readership may not read the Advocate, but the Advocate readers may read the blog.

Also, what was that bit Sullivan wrote about not having a pledge drive b/c he's not sure how long he can keep up with the blog anymore?

He's been dropping hints along these lines for a while now.

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