And Sully is where on this? Disgusted? Chagrined? Trippin his nutsak in a frenzy of dikplay?

two words: Clay Aiken

Gob-smackingly vile.

I ate it up.

Dude if you wear high heels a sing Queen of the Night you ARE gay.

On a somewhat related note, anyone know what ace has been up to?

Jack, that was Ace.

Yes, that display of gayness was beyond the pale. Any bets that it's over? He/she/it will be back, probably with a lawyer.

My wife brow-beat me into watching that. After loosing, the Pat cried to his family that the show was racist because America is racist. Apparently, ramming ass is an ethnicity now, too.

Anybody know where the whole "Ryan Seacrest is gay" thing started? He doesn't display any of the outward signs, at least to my eye. "Metrosexual" (god I hate that word) maybe, but not gay.

ramming ass is an ethnicity now, too.

I resemble that remark! Now get off my back!

That kid went far out of his way to appear as a young woman. Girl hair, eyebrows plucked practically to death, girl shirt, big white girl belt, girl pants, girl voice, girl song. He/she even had the gall to say "People who mistake me for a girl make me laugh so hard," when he/she is purposely going for the look. He/she tried out for the sole purpose of getting pissy and possibly litigious when they turned her down, which anyone would have after that disaster of a tryout.

The Crying Game music was a little much, but enough with the oversensitivity to this kind of thing. It's PC bullshit.

Hey can I get some credit here? This show is soooo derivative. You know what's missing? A big gong. That would add some class to this show!

"Anybody know where the whole "Ryan Seacrest is gay" thing started? He doesn't display any of the outward signs,"

I know that I'm going to hate myself for asking this, but just what are those outward signs, CraigC?

I think you may have misconstrued my remarks. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that there are gay men who are masculine. My point was that, absent any outward signs, unless he is gay, and someone in Hollywood who knew that started it, how did the whole thing get started?

Let's see, he 1) has long hair like a girl, 2) talks like a girl, 3) dresses like a girl, but don't you dare question his gender!

Watch this and you make the call.

Did you hear what he said to his mom after exiting the room crying? He said something like, "I wish I didn't look like a girl."

It was strange because obviously he made this choice. He would have been a very girly looking young man had he been dressed as a male, but he would have at least been gender specific.

I am all for doing your own thing. But seriously, when you dress like a freak show and people react negatively I am not sure how you rationalize being pissy about it.

This wearing girls clothes things is not unusual though. At the local high school here there were some boys in the office when my friend when to pick up her teenagers. They were super skinny wearing skintight girls jeans and shirts. They called themselves emo boys or some other hysterical shit.

Ya know, if I looked like Zach, I'd wear my hair really short and grow a beard (assuming that's even possible), but more importantly,l I'd avoid singing songs about queens.

Oy gevalt! He was asking for it, frankly. I've seen some obviously gay contestants, but Zachary - whoa. Gender-bender would be an understatement. Not even androgynous, Zach looks like a girl.

Can homophobia be funny? Yes. Yes it can. To be honest with you, as a gay guy, I didn't find anything that was done on that episode to be necessarily homophobic. Cowell's comments about shaving the beard and stuff? Out of line maybe, but... he's an asshole. He rips on fat people too. That's his schtick.

And I think by now we all know that AI actively searches for horribly outlandish contestants to put on TV. Ms. Zachary definitely fit that bill. If he/she honestly thought that he/she'd get through to the next round then his/her gender identity should be the least of his/her problems.

And I personally found the use of The Crying Game theme to be spot on hilarious.

Thank you, Chad!

Jennifer -

A music video that tells you everything you need to know about emo's.

http://www.wimp.com/beemo/

That chick was a dude?

I'm having such a Quagmire moment, like I'm aboard a ship and learning about Taylor Hanson.

"...oh god... Oh God... OH GOD!!!!!"

Here's a link to the audition video for "Zachary".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWZsAl6EZno

Dude looks like a lady!

Some times ya hear 'em talk, other times ya can't. Those same old cliches: is that a woman or a man?

Ugh. I thought for a few fleeting seconds that the picture up there was of an actual girl as a gag. But that was really him, huh?

My. God.

Woah. Woah. Woah.

That picture is of a dude?!?

Hole-Eee-Crap! I was just thinking "Hey, she's kinda cute. I would tap that."

I gotta agree with Sean. Quagmire moment indeed.

"Gay, totally gay, Liberace gay"

what`s up with these guys? Haven`t they seen "Brokeback Mountain " yet?

This episode fairly illustrates why I loathe AI, and programs like it. They prey on extremely vulnerable people. This Zach person is probably a high suicide risk. I hope that he/she finds some happiness in life.

They prey on extremely vulnerable people.

Sorry... I don't buy that for one second. This is the 5th year of American Idol and God knows how many for reality TV in general. If you're that clueless as to what they're really after, you deserve to be embarassed on national television.

These people know that they're no good and have no chance of "making it", but they also know that the weirder you are, the better chance you have of getting on TV and maybe... just maybe... becoming the next William Hung (She bang... she bang).

These folks want to be preyed upon. ... And I love them for it.

Screw the freaks at GLAAD they should all just get a life

Chad, I think you make my point. You would think that people like Zachary would know what's coming, but they don't and that's because people like him are sort of disconnected from reality. They lack insight about how they actually measure up, or are likely to measure up, against people who are truly talented.

I can tell you as someone who used to work in film and television, and who auditioned hundreds of aspiring actors and models, that the producer has immeasurable power over these aspiring performers' hopes and dreams. And after seeing a large number of people with no spark of talent, one tends to get cynical and a little rough with the rejections. But I always found it impossible to dismiss a person's humanity outright the way that AI does.

I remember auditioning a middle-aged guy for a speaking part. He was terrible; he couldn't act at all. He read from the script with a monotone drone. When I asked him why he wanted to be an actor, he told me that he had left his job as a house painter in the midwest to come to Hollywood and try to do something creative with his life. This was plainly an unrealistic goal for him, and the fact that he had left home and steady work behind to pursue it made him seem pathetic. But I could have never brought myself to treat him with contempt. He asked for some acting tips, and I gave him some that I knew would be useless, but what else was I to do?

AI would have taken that encounter and made it into an arena blood-sport. It's like feeding people to psychic lions. Yes, I'm a strong believer in free choice and all, but AI makes me very ill at ease.

Are these people really disconnected from reality though? I can see your point, but at the same time, I can't help but feel the majority of these people choose to go out of their way (or are maybe put up to it by the producers) to seem outrageous and bad.

If what you're saying is in fact true, then I would say these contestants illustrate the fact that America is suffering from a lack of common sense and a general grasp on reality.

On the other hand, the Democratic party has been illustrating that for some time now.

If it was something more like The Gong Show, I wouldn't mind. The Gong Show had a lot of fun (kind of like David Letterman used to) walking the fine line between what's entertainment and what's just plain awful. But AI puts people with unrealistic dreams under a microscope and then ridicules them for not getting it.

SWLiP-

While currently straddling two performing careers, you're absolutely right... but by the same token, how else do you give honest negative feedback to people that might get through to them?

I agree that it can be done less callously than Simon does it, but I've heard a couple of people lately (I'm in the opera business) that prompted me to tell them and their management, "What in the hell are you doing?" Not in a vicious way, but out of genuine concern for the artist.

As a qualifier- we screen our auditioners a hell of a lot more closely than AI does, but... what say you? I've produced my share of shows, both stage and TV... surely you've given feedback to artists, both good and bad.

I just cringe when people piss away their time with no clue where they are in terms of performance ability, and come in and waste my (or others') time... the business doesn't frankly pay enough to them or to us to make that worth it.

Again- not for an argument, but for a discussion...

tmi3rd

Quick follow-up...

Yes, people are really that disconnected. It's horrifying. You ought to see what happens when you post an open chorus call for shows... I don't think I can begin to come up with enough expletives to cover how deranged some of these idiots are. I think SWLiP would concur on that...

Opinions?

tmi3rd

tmi3rd:

I'd say that my experience concurs with yours. You do encounter people who really should be getting on with their lives, and sometimes you just have to tell them that they are wasting their time. But usually this is a process that occurs in relative seclusion, and is or should never be done strictly for the sake of having fun at another's expense.

The problem I have with AI is that it invites people with no talent (or, at least, people whose talent doesn't rise to deserving national stardom) to perform in front of a national audience and then publicly ridicules them for having no talent (or only marginal talent). And I have no doubt that the producers screen many of these "acts" simply for the sake of providing cannon fodder for the judging panel.

Aha! Now I'm following you better, and I agree- when they held auditions near some friends of mine, they discouraged many because they had 1) any classical training and 2) because they weren't model-thin.

They encouraged the obviously schizophrenic or astonishingly weird to hang around and sing.

My one caveat is that now these people have seen the show for a few years... at the risk of seeming cold-blooded (and my non-singing gig is with CBS, so these guys are obviously my competition), at some point you have to know what you're getting into. I don't think I've seen the panel (and I admit that I'm not an AI disciple) absolutely paste someone who has even a modest amount of talent.

But yeah, the show often seems like a bad setup.

tmi3rd

I can see what you're getting at, but the bottom line is that it's a TV show. Ratings are what matters. The producers of the show aren't going to air people who are just so-so. They're going to put on the types of people that will spawn threads such as this. They're going to put on people that will make for good water-cooler conversation. They're gonna put on people that will ensure the audience continues to tune in.

Sometimes they cross the line and useless organizations like GLAAD will step into the spotlight to make themselves relevant again. But if it offends you... don't watch.

You're exactly right, Chad. And frankly, I tend to enjoy Simon saying what I'm usually muttering under my breath with a lot of people.

As far as GLAAD goes, I frankly find them narcissistic and annoying.

But yes, in the days of reality TV... heeeeeere's reality! Truth is often stranger than fiction.

tmi3rd

JackStraw wrote:

Watch this and you make the call.

Ha ha. Case closed.

Look, if you make yourself up to look as girlish as possible and then turn around and act surprised when people think you're a girl, then what do you expect?

The only real reason not to poke fun at this dork is that this is clearly what he wants. Come on, apropos of nothing he comes up with the story of how funny it allegedly is to him when people mistake him for a girl. Obviously he's doing this to get attention. If anything, Fox should be criticized for giving into his needs, not for being mean to him.

But, honestly, what else are you going to do -- take him seriously?

Although you can't really argue with Zach here: "It just shows their own ignorance and stuff".

Ha ha ha.

I really need to start watching the first few episodes of every season to laugh at stuff like this (I have zero interest in watching it when it's weeded down to actual semi-talented people).

SWLiP wrote:

I remember auditioning a middle-aged guy for a speaking part. He was terrible; he couldn't act at all. He read from the script with a monotone drone. When I asked him why he wanted to be an actor, he told me that he had left his job as a house painter in the midwest to come to Hollywood and try to do something creative with his life. This was plainly an unrealistic goal for him, and the fact that he had left home and steady work behind to pursue it made him seem pathetic. But I could have never brought myself to treat him with contempt. He asked for some acting tips, and I gave him some that I knew would be useless, but what else was I to do?

How about telling him the truth?

I think what you did to him was actually crueler than anything I saw on that American Idol clip. While, yes, there is the danger you could push someone too far with a bad outcome, I think these people need reality checks. Getting ridiculed by American Idol is going to be embarrassing, but then hopefully after you've calmed down your friends and family can sit you down and have a talk with you about doing something a little more realistic.

Yes, it's exploitive on American Idol, but at least it may get the job done. Ideally, of course, these people would get their reality checks in much less public venues, such as the opportunity you had. I think you did that guy no favors by keeping his dream alive. If everyone treats him like that there's no telling how much of his life he'll waste. You don't think a suicide could potentially come at the end of that kind of "oh my god I've wasted my whole life" experience?

At my ten-year high school reunion, I talked with an old friend that was a crazy burnout rock-and-roll rebel all through high school. His whole life's dream was having a successful rock band, and he poured his heart and soul into it (and the guy actually was talented, intelligent, and a hard worker at things he was interested in). Now, here he was, ten years later, an accountant and completely happy with life. I asked him what had happened to him, and he said that a few years ago his dad had sat him down and gently told him that it just didn't look like his band thing was going to take off and so perhaps he should start looking into other things. Even though this guy was extremely anti-authority, his dad's words hit a nerve and he realized that he had given it a good try but it just wasn't in the cards. Obviously a lot of people need that kind of moment. Hopefully they won't get it on AI, but I think that's better than not getting it at all.

Anyway, I hate to say it, but I thought Zach actually sang really well. It was silly that he was dressed like a girl and singing a girl song while protesting that nobody should think any of this is odd, but I thought his actual voice was good. Maybe I'm just a poor judge of this sort of thing. Or maybe Paula Abdul and others want to reject him for being a clown but feel they have to say it's for other reasons. The way Paula strongly emphasized how she was just rating his voice made me think she was protesting a bit too much.

What Simon actually told the guy, to whom he suggested he "shave his beard and wear a dress", was that he might have a good career ahead of him as a female impersonator. This was a critique much more of the guy's singing style, which was like the showy and flamboyant style usually employed by drag show artists. Considering this, it didn't seem like a homophobic comment at all. And drag show work does take a good deal of talent to begin with, so it could even be considered a compliment.
As to the person asked, "are you a boy or a girl?", well, I couldn't tell either. Plus this person was quite obviously cultivating an androgynous look. That someone would have to ask is also something of a compliment to this person. Their attempt at androgyny is successful.
But I guess you still get more milage out of weak homophobia accusations than taking innocuous remarks at face value...

The "Idol" judges should memorize the following:

"Gays are perfect in every way. So are Blacks, and ALL minorities. If you criticize them in the slightest way, you are exactly like Hitler, only worse."

You see, one simply CAN'T crizicize a minority as an indivual! If you dare try, the criticism will instantly be applied to the WHOLE minority, and you will be called a bigot.

Of course, this PC nonsense doesn't ever STOP bigotry, ity simpy drives it underground and actually intensifies it!

PS. If you object to this post in ANY way you are a racist.

Just for the record, my comments weren't about alleged bigotry -- I remain agnostic on that point. My concern was about a broader problem I have with AI and shows like it.