Yay!

Pelosi's remark about a new direction in Iraq reaches new heights of silliness. Like the narcoleptic in Rat Race, she wants us to fall asleep with our hand on the locker door. Any reasonable person knows victory is at hand. Why would we give up now, because staying the course not exciting?

When we are done, we shouldn't forget those who fought this war, kicking and screaming the entire way. Its wasn't a dignified dissent, there was no patriotic objects, but gallons of bile, libel, lies and conspiracy theories.

So, when things start going so well that even the MSM can't ignore it anymore (only 3 events of good news pierced the MSM veil on Iraq good news: 1. the capture of Baghdad (statute down) 2. Capture of Saddam and 3. the Jan. elections.), it will be amusing to see the Dems try to point out that they had been behind this 100% since day one.

Never forget who were dishonorable in their objections to the war and their predictions of defeat at every turn. And lets not forget who stuck with it, when even 57% turned their heads away from Iraq.

Bush has once again tricked the Dhims into betting high on a weak hand. Time for another armload of chips!

P.S. The first draft of this was thrown out by your system because I mentioned the name of the card game Bush has a reputation for being a master of. WTF? Stop crushing my dissent, Ace!

The Democrats, aided by the Press, have been carefully positioning themselves to say just about anything regarding their position on Iraq, now that we are at the endgame. That they will have the MSM echo chamber at their backs when they claim that they "forced" Bush into this or that will give them volume to reach the public.

I kind of wished GWB said that the job is done as far as democracy goes, and now we must clean up after ourselves (re: the insurgency) before we leave, "because that's the right thing to do". That gives him the win, the humanity, and the future victory. It puts the whole "mission accomplished" thing in perspective as well.

I think you mean "paternity."

This war isn't going for decades. Our part will be mostly over by the Congressional elections. The Republican congress will insist on it since they don't want to lose.

The US is already making overtures to the Sunni insurgents. We'll get them to quiet down long enough for us to declare "victory" and pull the troops out. Anyway, the Sunnis are probably starting to realize that all their insurgency is doing is pissing off the Shias who will obliterate them once the Americans are gone. (Currently we're doing this job for the Shias.) Then we'll have Islamic Republic #2, modelled on Iran, and a sworn enemy of the US and Israel. Oh, I forgot, we'll also be essentially bankrupt and still not have any better access to oil. Plus, our civil liberties will be mostly gutted- but who minds, we got to get them nasty "terrists" and us real "mercans" never say anything on the phone that we'd mind the government listening in to.

Have a nice day!

Er, they're making overtures to us.

Then we'll have Islamic Republic #2, modelled on Iran, and a sworn enemy of the US and Israel.

Which would be worse than Saddam how?

Anyhow, of course none of this will happen. The Iraqis have chosen and will continue to choose democracy. They have no interest in copying Iran. After all, even the Iranians don't like the Iranian government.

Wait a minute, I thought the Iraqis were so secular that they were the only country in the Middle East (well, the world actually) where Al Qaeda was never able to gain a base in. In fact, its become known as the oil and water rule of terrorism.

right?

But now they are going islamic? How? Damn you, Bush!

And, bravo, I would give you a slow clap for pointing out how our civil libs were gutted. But, then I would get thrown in jail. because our civ libs were gutted.
get it?

Any other talking points you want to throw out? Why stop at Bankrupt and without oil?

OK, smart guy, how about this?

HALLIBURTON!

"Which would be worse [Islamic Republic #2] than Saddam how?"

I think an Iraq run by Saddam, who hated Iran, was less of a threat to the US and Israel, than the coming Shia-run government that owes much to Iran. In effect, we've cloned Iran. The Shia militias have already infiltrated much of the police and army and already run the Interior ministry. This is not going to be a shining democracy - like Canada say - but a democracy like Iran, basically subject to Islamic law as specified in the new Iraqi constitution.

I think it will be difficult to say that the results we will see in the near future are clearly better for the US. They may be somewhat better for the Iraquis, given the overwhelming brutality of Saddam but I wouldn't be surprised if women are worse off. But our goal has never been to rid of the world of nasty dictators; it only became the goal here because the WMDs evaporated. The reality is we had no problems with Saddam in the old days when he was gassing Kurds and Iranians, in fact we were helping him out.

The whole thing makes me sick - a whole lot of dead and maimed Americans and for what? It sure the hell wasn't to spread democracy. Our CIA has probably overthrown a lot more democracies than the KGB ever did.

And Joeindc - why no worries over the government spying on Americans without warrants? Maybe you work for the gov? Is there any part of the Bill of Rights that you aren't willing to give up just so we can get them "terrists"?

Bush is a conservative Republican, except in everything he does: aggressive war, growing the federal government, ballooning the debt, limiting our freedoms. Now, he has made the rich folks much richer so I guess that is sort of "Republican."

Take care all!

In effect, we've cloned Iran.

I disagree. Not much point in debating this, though. When it comes to predictions of the future, all we can do is take a wait-and-see attitude. If you have any integrity, you'll remember that you thought this, and if and when Iraq really does blossom into a sane stable democracy, you'll learn something from your mistake. (And if events prove me wrong, of course I'll remember, and do the same.)

basically subject to Islamic law as specified in the new Iraqi constitution.

Try reading it. It looks fine to me.

The reality is we had no problems with Saddam in the old days when he was gassing Kurds and Iranians, in fact we were helping him out.

What do you mean "we"? I sure had a problem with it.

Our CIA has probably overthrown a lot more democracies than the KGB ever did.

Wow. Seriously, that's a pretty messed up version of history. Chomsky fan?

Bush channeling Mr. Paul Anka, in respect to Miguel:
"You thought, you thought, you thought. You thought eight fucking things since the war began. You're on fuckin' notice."

To continue:
You're on fuckin' notice, Don. I gave you a list, you had half a list that I gave you, we're just choosing everything on it. Okay? The guys get shorts.

Don't make a fuckin' maniac out of me.

The guys get shorts. Do you understand? We're not going to be as strong as our weakest links. The guys get shorts. Do you understand that?

This is like football, baseball, like anything else. The guys get shorts. The guys get shorts.

That's just. The fucking. Way it is.

SJK - hope you're right

Cthulhu - please ... go back on the meds