Prediction: the entire D caucus will either not show up or stage some form of protest walk out and refuse to vote.

D.C. residents: That scurrying sound you hear is not a greater than normal rat influx. It's the Dem. congressional caucus in mass exodus, simulataneously remembering 'previously scheduled' home district visits.

I can see this backfiring. Enough yellow-bellied, spineless Republicans would jump ship and vote with the Dems and the thing passes. Evidently this presidency didn't come with a veto pen (must cost extra) so Bush is unable to veto it.

Not gonna happen Dale. Look for some interesting ammendments and procedural moves.

How long until you hear this?

"The whole Murtha speech was just a Rupub (see Rove, Karl) trick."

I can see this backfiring.

If it does I will cut off my "mangerines" with a pair of wire cutters.

I hope someone has a camera on Mother Sheehan to catch her dissolving into a puddle of tears when this goes down in flames.

It's go time. Finally.

Scott, never bet your family jewels on what elected officials might do. Just an FYI.

oh well, better call your worthless representatives.

Prediction: the entire D caucus will either not show up or stage some form of protest walk out and refuse to vote.--Mike

Well that would be even better than a vote in some ways. How UNserious do you have to be as a political alternative when you can't bother to register a vote on a matter YOU say is of Primary National Importance.

Any way this is sliced the Democrats are going to look bad. They should be painted into this corner at least once a month over some related issue or another.

Defeatist Swine that they are.

I can't believe Hastert & co. are actually doing the smart thing.
When's the last time that happened?
I sent my senators email last night demanding exactly this vote.
I want to see it children. Money where your mouth is time.
Of course, this won't stop the dems from running their mouths about Iraq after the vote, but it will give a certain humorous twist to the whole "I was for it before I was against it" lie. Something like "I'm for it and against it, (how long till election day?), and don't dare question my patriotism, it's all for the troops."

This needed to be done. If the D's want to play this game, make 'em back up their bullshit talk with actions. Either way: let America see the Donks for what they are -- a pack of defeatest crybabies.

defeatest

My spel gud!

I meant, of course, "defeatist". Loose shit.

Maybe the republicans are finally starting to realize that their base has been getting pretty frustrated with them and actually expects them to, you know, work for a living?

SJKevin:

Hope springs eternal, but I'm not gonna bet the home-place on it.

Monty,

Is it on tradesports yet? I wouldn't bet on it either, but it would be interesting to see what action it would get.

One bad bit of possible blowback: Suppose some Iraqis get the word we're actually voting on a pullout and think it might actually happen. That's not a good thing. Can we expect them to understand how our politics work?

In a sense, it's a poltical trick that could make us seem wobbly right now, which is exactly what we've been accusing the Donks of doing. Of course, an overwhelming Stay vote would take care of this.

All that said, anything's better than letting this farce go on any longer.

A commenter on DailyKos offers up the following:

"I think they are also trying to use this to keep their own reps in line, more than a few of which likely have some private sympathies for Murtha."

Thoughts?

Oh, and why don't people here ever follow their posts with trite quotations? I'll get the ball rolling:

The sheep that grazes the tallest grass is well-fed, but not, I think, so well-fed as the shepherd.

It's so easy!

spongeworthy:

All the "coulda-woulda-shoulda" stuff went by the boards when the dipshit RINOs passed that Iraq-pullout-notification resolution. It doesn't matter that it was advisory only and had no legislative power; everyone read it (and rightly so) as an abandonment of our troops. This is the Republican attempt to remedy that mistake and to force the Democrats to admit what we've known all along: they're not "behind the troops", they are in fact opposed to everything the troops are doing.

I hope this goes to a vote, because it will force the Dems to either abstain or vote -- and any outcome is disastrous for them.

1. If the Donks abstain, they're viewed as cowards who won't "speak truth to power".
2. If they vote "Yes" on a pullout, they become branded forever as the "cut and run" party and can probably kiss off the '06 and '08 elections.
3. If they vote "No", they'll enrage their moonbat base.

But it must come to a vote. Please, please, let it come to a vote! Let America witness how gutless and bereft of ideas the Donks are!

On a marginally-related note, Hans Bricks has some interesting poll numbers up. (His links don't work very well, but you can just go to his home page here).

As it turns out, as bad as President Bush's numbers look now, the donks are a lot worse. And Hans has a telling quote by Bill Frist you should check out.

I think general American disgust with government will make for an interesting outcome on this vote.

Good for them. Make the dems show their true colors.

It's not so much they actively want the US to be defeated, humiliated, and further threatened

I can't figure out if you're giving them too much credit, or simply underestimating them.
Many of them want just that, and believe as their moonbat base does, that America is indeed the root of all modern evil.
Whatever their reasoning, what they want more than anything is power, and they'll sell out the lives of our Troops, both currently in the field and those that will have to fight an even stronger enemy in the future, as well as the lives of all Americans who will be even more threatened by terrorism.
They are willing to sell America out in order to control it.

Opening graf of the Drudge link:

"House Republicans, sensing an opportunity for political advantage, maneuvered for a quick vote and swift rejection Friday of a Democratic lawmaker's call for an immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq."

Ahh yes -- only Republicans are shifty enough to do things for "political advantage." The Dem shutdown of Congress 2 weeks ago was done out of the goodness of their hearts and most certainly NOT for political advantage.

Gotta love that objective MSM...and that editorializing in the first graf.

PS -- Long time lurker (back when some guy named Allah had a blog) ; first time poster...keep up the good work Ace and crew....

Put up or shut up. Precedent is strong that the Dims will do neither.

They are willing to sell America out in order to control it.

Yes, but that's the beauty of this gambit. The more people suspect the above, the more the Democrats lose control.

So! How to vote? Piss off your base? Or piss off everybody else? They need more than their base to succeed.

I'm guessing they'll piss off their base. After all (just like the Republican base), how else can the base vote, when the time comes to pull the lever?

Their flipping their wigs.

Merry Fitzmas, everyone!

START CALLING YOUR CONGRESSMEN! I just did, and then had the missus call the DC office. they were quite surprised to hear from us, as they represent northern california and all.

"Wait--so you're for it?" asked the clueless staffer. "I'm for winning the war, yes. So I'm against Murtha's resolution," said my wife, speaking very slowly.

I got me a good one there.

Let them vote. Afterwards, when they are leaving the building, splash yellow paint on them. Splash yellow paint on their local offices. I live in an area papered with BushHitler signs. I should print up my own of dems with yellow stripes.

We shd compile stats on all the deaths when we initially pulled out of Iraq and when we pulled out of SE Asia.

Is this on CSPAN or on live anywhere?

Usually I can sense nuance. I can occasionally see penumbras. Once in a great while I can even feel emanations. When it comes to troops in harm's way, however,I see nothing but support, feel nothing but pride, and sense profound respect.

We are at war. Let them vote. Its their base, or our national honor. The heck with loving power more than America. I am worried that they value weakening the international standing of our military.

(Is this on CSPAN or on live anywhere?)

They have a live feed of the House at http://www.bareknucklepolitics.com

It is on CSPAN. I think it is about time for the vote.

Rep. Jim McGovern is an idiot. Good to know.

He is actually claiming he will vote against it because it does not provide for an orderly withdrawl of the troops.

Pretty damn weak.

Here come the ammendments.

And the parlimentary tricks.

I’m listening to and watching C-SPAN online. Very interesting. They’re having people call in as the Representatives vote on whether they can vote today or not. Supporters of the troops have arguments; Democrats don’t have any: all they say is that they oppose it, so we should withdraw. The Republicans have reasons and arguments and actual justifications for their statements, whereas the Democrats are just making statements.

He is actually claiming he will vote against it because it does not provide for an orderly withdrawl of the troops.

I'm guessing that will be the routine cover story for Dems. They'll say they are for the commencement of a "phased" withdrawal that proceeds in a "responsible" manner, as opposed to an "irresponsible" immediate withdrawal that proceeds without the necessary logistical planning and handover to the Iraqi Army, blah blah blah.

Dang, couldn't get through. That amendment passed; the R's voted for it; what happens now?

Noooooooooo!!!!!! I was supposed to get pretty presents for Fitzmas, not have to give all my stuff to Santa!!!!!

Presents for me! Presents for me!! The dirty Republicans, they stole my Fitzmas!! I HATE them!

Ooooh. This should be fun.

Who's the good-looking guy behind Barney Frank?

"That amendment passed..."

See-Dub, I don't have C-SPAN. What amendment are you talking about?

"By forcing the issue to a vote, Republicans placed many Democrats in a politically unappealing position - whether to side with Murtha and expose themselves to attacks from the White House and congressional Republicans, or whether to oppose him and risk angering the voters that polls show want an end to the conflict."

wtf?

Dems are afraid of the White House/Repubs?

voters want an end to the conflict??

"The sad truth is that they've painted themselves into the corner where they cannot allow the United States to win this war."

I think the saner Democrats aren't that foolish, and the insane (McDermott, McKinney, Jackson-Lee) ones are from safe Blue seats anyway. Besides, the same calculus would have had them terrified about Bush pere winning the Persian Gulf War, which did not help him gain reelection.

Besides, the same calculus would have had them terrified about Bush pere winning the Persian Gulf War, which did not help him gain reelection.

One difference: Perot.

Besides, the same calculus would have had them terrified about Bush pere winning the Persian Gulf War, which did not help him gain reelection.

It should have helped him a lot. He got whipped because the economic recovery was only beginning by the time of the election (so Clinton took credit for it), and he reneged on his "read my lips" pledge on taxes so Republicans stayed home in droves (including me).

6:31 P.M. - The Speaker announced that the House do now recess. The next meeting is subject to the call of the Chair.

I'm so excited!

Ringey's amendment to the motion. It was adopted without objection and it just clarified that the resolution applied to US troops.

Which, duh: We don't pass resolutions about the Italian coast guard.

But the vote was for the rule. I may have misunderstood initially that it wasn't Murtha's remarks that was yea or nay.

"Cowards cut and run, Marines don't!" - Rep. Pryce (R-Ohio)
Her words were retracted after the Dems went into conniption mode. Doesn't make them any less true.

One difference: Perot

Excellent observation. Isn't life funny? You have to wonder where we'd be today if he hadn't run. For one, Monica would be just another run-of-the-mill horny fat chick :)

Roll Call Reports that, before his "Surrender and Come Home" Press Conference, Murtha was facing an ethics investigation:

Republican lawmakers say that ties between Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and his brother’s lobbying firm, KSA Consulting, may warrant investigation by the House ethics committee…

According to a June 13 article in The Los Angeles Times, the fiscal 2005 defense appropriations bill included more than $20 million in funding for at least 10 companies for whom KSA lobbied. Carmen Scialabba, a longtime Murtha aide, works at KSA as well.

KSA directly lobbied Murtha’s office on behalf of seven companies, and a Murtha aide told a defense contractor that it should retain KSA to represent it, according to the LA Times.

In early 2004, Murtha reportedly leaned on U.S. Navy officials to sign a contract to transfer the Hunters Point Shipyard to the city of San Francisco, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. A company called Lennar Inc. had right to the land, and Laurence Pelosi, nephew to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was an executive with the firm at that time.

Now, I’m just spit-ballin’ here, but suppose you were a Democrat congressman, and you knew you were about to be the subject of an ethics investigation… over something considerably easier for the voters to understand than a technical violation of an obscure campaign finance law. Would it occur to you that one way to get the media on your side, and make the pending ethics investigation look like a smear campaign, was to pull a Cindy Sheehan and call for immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq?

Is that plausible, or am I in “Hillary killed Vince Foster” territory?

Wait a second: Hillary didn't kill Vince Foster?

Pryce retracted her quote from the Marine general?!? Speaking of cowards ...

Sean,

Well, if she did to Vince what she's doing to the dummy in this picture...

Isn't life funny? You have to wonder where we'd be today if he hadn't run. For one, Monica would be just another run-of-the-mill horny fat chick :)

I guess you can wonder, but I'm not sure it helps. Let's assume Bush I had won: Quayle, not the greatest candidate ever, would have run in '96 against...I'm not sure who, but probably nobody inspiring. Then, depending upon who won that contest...

At any rate, nobody back then was interested in Islamic terrorism, which is the central issue today.

Which is to say, it's often pointless to speculate about what might have been. Niall Ferguson, you are free to kiss my ass.

I don't have that cspan channel on my television and my streaming connection sucks, so I only heard a few minutes on the radio.

It sounds like the House of Commons with everyone yelling. I love it!

This is almost heartening. I may start giving money to the GOP again.

OH. OH. OHHHH

I think I may have a huge crush on Dennis Kucinich.

Move over, Howard Dean!

I found someone with enough crazy to float a battleship around!

Wonkette has an unsually (for her) thoughtful and balanced post about the spin and counter-spin on this.

Stopped clock.

The Republicans who have stood up thus far are weak speakers. What happened to our great public speakers in the house?

I am without CSPAN access and knowledge of congressional procedures- does anyone have a sense as to when this vote will happen?

Is Walter Jones (R-NC) for us for them? He's quoting Gov. Bush as if to chastize Republicans.

Does anyone know if Mark Kirk (R-IL) has spoken?

Alan: Don't know but I think tonight. Try this courtesy of Dave:

They have a live feed of the House at http://www.bareknucklepolitics.com

Jones was apparently speaking for the dems on their time allotment.

Thanks Zuke. Which one is the Democrat person? The gentlewoman from NY?

Yeah, the woman. I hate the recurring line from the dems:
debate and disagreement = slander and "swift boating". Aggravating the hell out of me.

Was it an affront to the "dignity" of congress when the Democrats proposed a sham resolution to raise a draft and then all but 2 voted against it? One of whom was Murtha himself.

What's up with Walter Jones? I guess he doesn't feel like getting re-elected. What an asshole.

Any traitor republicans?

I hear you! They're all saying the same thing. But I have not yet heard anything attacking Murtha. Actually, to be frank, throughout this issue, Republicans have been far more civil. Every Republican has lauded Murtha as a hero, blah blah blah. And yet Democrats feel no hesitation slandering the President. The comments of Dana Rohrbacher (R-California) were spot on.

Murtha said, "My plan calls for immediate redeployment of U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces, to create a quick reaction force in the region, to create an over-the-horizon presence of Marines, and to diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq" (italics added). From http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=6108 (sorry, I don't know how to format urls). The House is discussing exactly what Murtha said.

Political stunt? Kinda like an impromptu closed-door Senate session?

Is it possible to sue the Democrat Party for slander and libel?

They're allowed to push the envelope since the media won't challenge them. They can't produce a single authentic quote from a Republican congressman "attacking" Murtha. They'll make it into a headline though.

Vote time!

*sigh* I very much dislike Democrats right now. Their rhetoric sickens me. Full of falsehood, lies, slander, libel, and cowardice.

Thank you so much, Zuke, for your comments.

A congresswoman quoted a marine constitutiant as saying only cowards cut and run or something like that and the dems are trying to make hay over it.

I don't know why I watch these train wrecks, but I'm hooked on C-SPAN. Its a guilty pleasure.

So have they had the vote yet? The vote on having the vote was over three hours ago.

I think they're having a procedural vote now. A vote on rules of the debate. And then another hour of debate, and then the final vote. Great Friday Night Fun!

Ooops. My bad. They are now voting on whether the House should vote on the resolution. If I understand it correctly, there are three steps:
1. Vote to debate voting for the resolution.
A. Debate on voting for resolution; debate on resolution.
2. Vote on whether to vote on the resolution.
B. ?
3. Vote on the resolution.

I don't know if there is a step B.

The callers are interesting. Most of the "Others" are supporting the Republicans. Democrats are not really saying anything substantive. Republicans are making points, most of them calling on the Democrats' vilification of President Bush. Surprisingly, a lot of Republican callers have loved ones in Iraq, or lost loved ones in Iraq, or recently buried someone who died in Iraq. Their reporting of what our men and women in uniform are thinking is very, very relevant, IMHO.

Geez spypeach... I planned on this just being a chill out night anyhow, but thanks for reminding me its friday night and I'm watching C-SPAN. Oh well. Tomorrow is drunken football rivalry day, I'll make up for tonight.

Now the debate. Woohoo.

Henry Hyde (R-Illinois) up first.

Why is Weldon defending Murtha? It's not about Murtha. Bleh.

Because, from the liberals' side, this is all about Murtha. They're not talking about what matters but about an imagined campaign viciously launched by Republicans to besmirch Murtha for his allegedly bravery.

Sam Johnson! Yay! God bless the man!

Geez, who is this nitwit from Az droning on on Cspan. The state of the Dem. talking points.

one yea for the R's? Who are these goofs who call into Cspan?

Now the final vote. I see we already have one Republican traitor. So far only 2 Democrats have voted "Aye". This should fail overwhelmingly.

"yeah, hi. I have been a GOP for about 45 years. But ever since Bush cut taxes and started bringing in extremists like Condi Rice, I have to say that this war is only for oil and Halliburton."

Wow, 355-3?

That is double the support that the draft got!

Better get your spit shine kit ready, kids. We'll have a draft by 2145

Typical. The Dems have once again showed themselves to be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. All they can do is criticize, and when they are actually offered a chance to vote in accordance with their rhetoric, they slink away in shame. What's interesting to me is if the Sheehan/Moore/Kos wing of the base will be angry that their representatives have once again declined to publicly go on record as opposing the war.

I like the lady who called and said if the democrats are going to act french then they have to go act french in france. lol!

So, how do we use this vote the most effectively to shove it up the donks ass?

Caller from Provo (obviously Republican), he said, "What they need to do is get together," and I snorted quite loudly.

Democrats and Republicans? With the President? Getting together?

When the Democrats stop lying to the nation (which Democrats seem to be adept at - anyone remember " I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"?), then we'll sit down with them.

From a Democrat (I think) from Indiana: "If the Democrats are going to be big old wimps, like France, they should go and do that in France." Well said!

Well, I would like to see censures for all the donks who called the president a liar. Point out the lie, or die. I always say. But that's my little piece of crazy I keep just for looking at. No using that stuff, me.

What those two rethuglikkkans removed their yea? pussies.

so lets see, its ration of 133 to 1.

403 to 3? looks like Bush united us after all. That's what I would say.

The Republican traitor changed his vote to America-supporting "Nay".

This can be used against Democrats: as NCVOL said, "The Dems have once again showed themselves to be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing." This proves that. The next time they get on their soapbox, we can easily ask them, "Then why didn't you put your vote where your mouth is? Why did you vote against withdrawing the troops, as you now demand?" And then we can ask them, "Can you do anything, besides talk, talk, talk?"

BUSH THE UNITER : 403 TO 3

We need a catchy slogan out of this. Anyone can polish it up or come up with a catchier one? I really want to rub peoples noses in it.

This time, the good guys won.

The Republican traitor changed his vote to America-supporting "Nay".

So it was just a Republican goof rather than a traitor? Lord knows we have enough goofs on our team.

Noes 3
McKinney
Serrano
Wexler

Answered "Present" 6
Capuano
Clay
Hinchey
McDermott
Nadler
Owens

Not Voting 22
Beauprez (R)
Berman
Boswell
Boyd
Camp (R)
Cunningham (R)
Davis
Flake (R)
Fossella (R)
Gallegly (R)
Hall (R)
Jindal (R)
Kind
LaHood (R)
Miller, Gary (R)
Moran (R)
Northup (R)
Paul (R)
Peterson (R)
Shadegg (R)
Towns
Young (R)

They should hold this vote every Friday until the Dems shut up about troop withdrawal.

Jindal (R)

Correction! Correction! I fucked up -- big!
That should read Ayes not Noes with 3 votes.
McKinney, Wexler, and Serrano voted FOR the resolution for immediate troop withdrawal.

Dammit!

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is"

Wexler is my asshole, I'm ashamed to say.

What's interesting to me is if the Sheehan/Moore/Kos wing of the base will be angry that their representatives have once again declined to publicly go on record as opposing the war.

Exactly. Dems have to look simultaniously sane to America and responsive to their base. Nice wedgie, GOP.

Hinchey! Woooooooo! Upstate NY! Woooooooooo!

I went from having Hinchey represent me, to having Barbara Lee represent me. Feel my pain.