You can count on Ace to swing a gas can around the embers.

If not him, who?
If not now, when?

Does it seem like there's been a surge of stories like this? Or is it just that they get more coverage now?

Yes, it's important to keep these things in the media so that we will never forget that we STARVED a women to death. A slow, gruesome, and painful 2 weeks.
You know CNN's Aaron Brown was even offered an award for his "coverage" of Schavio.

http://rightwingsparkle.blogspot.com/2005/05/this-was-interesting-news-bit-i-came.html

RWS: If it were only something as neat as starving her. Dehydration is much more gruesome.

Michael Dennis -

The media has always loved the coma case coming back to life.

The media always has a few cases mentioned each year.

The frustrating thing is doctors know some coma patients, unlike Flat-line vegetatives, are capable of recovery, but don't know which ones - a relatively small minority of coma patients - actually will.

You say a few cases a year, but it seems like there's been a few cases just since the Schiavo case. I think they just get more coverage now.

The real kicker in the Sciavo case is that Michael won't tell the parents where she is buried. How fucking cold is that. He kills her, and then won't let the parents say goodbye.

I've been in a persistent vegetative state for years. It all started with a Grateful Dead concert back in 1970. You combine a couple of hits of Owsley Purple Haze with a couple of hits of Angel Dust, and you never know what will happpen.

The cases in the past month just proves that Terri was murdered by the left wing hate group called Dim-ocrats.

Iblis -

Check your facts. M Schiavo has not interned T Schiavo's ashes anywhere yet. They are in storage. No doubt awaiting the RTL-generated media circus to die down and autopsy results to be disclosed.

M Schiavo has a Court order to notify the Schindlers when and where the ashes are finally interned.

One interesting tidbit revealed was Mark Fuhrman was looking at the case at the behest of the Schindlers, according to the Schindlers...but Fuhrman denies doing an independent investigation...just looking at some things.

Another interesting tidbit was that Scott Schiavo, M Schiavo's brother, said that Bobby Schindler and Suzanne Verdaramo, the siblings, never visited from 1991 to 2000, and only started when the RTL started throwing dollars around. Matching M Schiavo's past observation that Bobby Schindler visited perhaps - 5 or less times between the accident and when he hooked up with his sponsors after 2000. That Robert Schindler would accompany his wife, but refuse to go in T Schiavo's room. And that Scott Schiavo was also witness to Robert Schindler telling M Schiavo that - back in 1992, M Schiavo needed to score a piece of ass or two to take his mind off Terri.

Cedarford:

Umm, I think you mean "interred." Ashes are "interred;" college graduates are "interned."

I checked, Dave. You're right, I'm wrong. Thanks for the correction. I think I got it from my aunt talking about internment of a step uncle's ashes....And no, I don't plan on letting her now....

Seedy wrote:
...when the RTL started throwing dollars around.

...when he hooked up with his sponsors after 2000.

Deep pocket right-to-life organizations who have been ruining poor old Michael's life. Poor poor Michael could probably sue them for defamation, given all of the LIES and MORE LIES that they, the horrible, rich right-to-life organizations, tell.

But he won't. Because he doesn't have any money left after paying for the new houses and Mercedes and $400,000 fees for Felos and Bushnell.

Poor poor Michael.

That damned evil Bob Schindler. How dare he want his daughter to live. How dare he want Michael to fulfill his promises to Terri, at their wedding and at the medical malpractice trial.

It was all about the money. That son of a bitch Bob Schindler, living high and mighty with his wife in that trailer he had to move into. Greedy bastard, always wanting more more more.

I mean, where the hell do these people get off telling Michael how to dispose of his own property? The right to privacy, as it says explicitly there in the Constitution, says it's a woman's right to choose to do whatever she wants to with her body, and Terri chose telepathically and transtemporally to die of dehydration and starvation by becoming Michael's licensed property.

If Bob Schindler gave a genuine damn about his daughter he would have acted to encourage her being forcibly committed when she was in the process of suiciding via self-starvation.

So, this other woman? Was her skull filled mostly with fluid because her brain looked like someone had been at it with an ice cream scooper? Still possessing enough gray matter to host a human personality offers vastly more hope than ever existed in the Schaivo case.

"Still possessing enough gray matter to host a human personality offers vastly more hope"

Ah. So the rabid crazy "RTLs" were right after all: we now execute people who don't have a personality we like. In that case, can we start depriving the RTDs of food and water sometime soon? At least down here in Jesusland?

Eric Pobirs wrote:

Still possessing enough gray matter to host a human personality offers vastly more hope than ever existed in the Schaivo case.

How much gray matter is required to host a human personality? If you lose fully 50% of your brain, can you function at all? Could you walk, talk, eat, or read if you had only 50% of your brain left?

Megan, good try, but I don't think this fellow will be affected by appeals to decency, unlike the rest of us.

I'm trying the approach of showing him how much of an expert he really is, as opposed to how much he thinks he is.

Good luck, Sue. I just feel so sad and angry and ashamed about the whole thing - this should not happen in the United States. And it's simply surreal to listen to people excuse, justify, sometimes even exult over it.

One of my friends started crowing over me the day the tube was removed, like it was a personal victory for her, and she's not even a liberal. I was too numb by that point to really take it in or rap her on the knuckles. But I should have.

This is evil.

Ah yes Cedaford I should've written hidden in storage instead of buried. The result is the same, the parents can't say good-bye. Which is what Schiavo said he wanted to happen.
The whole point was that he's under a court order to tell them where she's interred. He can stick her anywhere and say "Oh but that's not her final resting place"
Where is the harm in letting her parents see her remains? So Michael hasn't gotten her that fancy gold inlaid urn yet, I don't think her parents are going to care. Its not like their opinion of him is going any lower.

Yeah, what's the deal with the autopsy? I thought the results were going to be made public right after she died.

MoS

Personality we like. Oh get real, Megan. We're talking about any personality at all. The frontal lobes on both hemispheres were GONE. What was left didn't even amount to a lizard in term of volitional functions.

This was an incredibly bad choice for a euthanasia fight and made me embarrassed to be a conservative. It's long past time people got over the idea that a sustained heartbeat and breathing means much in regard to human presence. You can have a conversation with someone who has had their heart and/or lungs replaces by machines but having those organs intact will do nothing to imbue humanity in a body lacking the portions of the brain where human cogition resides.

This isn't a recent development. Mapping of brain function areas began over a century ago. If you lose a chunk from one hemisphere there is a chance you might recover partially or better with the remaining tissue on the other side. But when there is profund tissue loss across both hemispheres there is no longer anywhere to reroute those functions and no current means to regrow them. If the means to regrow brain tissue does arise it would not restore someone like Terri Schaivo. The information that comprised her memories and personality would be irretrievably and the patient effectively a new born infant in an middle-aged adult body. That strikes me as incredibly cruel.

[sigh] I don't have the energy for this anymore.

"Tell Henry Earl I wanna be his girl; he's the sanest guy in town..."

And on the decency front, where is the decency in the groteque spectacle of the parents devoting potentially the rest of their remaining lives to hovering over their daughter's corpse? The prospect of any recovery was worse than laughable. These people didn't need intervention by the GOP, they needed grief counselors to help them confront their failure to help their daughter when it would have really mattered as she starved herself. If redemption is what they seek it would be a far more positive thing to devote their attentions to patients who could be helped but far outnumber the system's capacity to provide.

"they needed grief counselors to help them confront their failure to help their daughter when it would have really mattered as she starved herself"

You know Eric, this is a particularly vile argument on your part. You have obviously never raised children if you think parents can force an adult child to do anything. But what's particulary reprehensible is you attempt to blame the Shindler's simply because you have no substantive argument otherwise. You call yourself a conservative but I seriously, seriously doubt you live your life like one.

Eric wrote:

The frontal lobes on both hemispheres were GONE. What was left didn't even amount to a lizard in term of volitional functions.

Incorrect. She had more frontal lobe left than posterior.

And now you say that she was "a lizard." So you're advocating the death of anyone who doesn't reach a certain IQ level. Nice.

And on the decency front, where is the decency in the groteque spectacle of the parents devoting potentially the rest of their remaining lives to hovering over their daughter's corpse?

First she was a lizard, then she was a corpse (pre-dehydration). There's a lot of difference between lizard and corpse. But then again, when you're gliding down a slippery slope like a water park slide, it's easy for others to convince you that human equals lizard equals corpse.

You still didn't answer my question before. You posited that Terri didn't have enough gray matter to have a personality, much less consciousness.

I asked you if someone with 50% of their brain gone could be functional at anything close to normal level.

I'll even qualify it further. Let's say a person loses 50% of their brain and becomes unconscious in the process. A majority of doctors who examine her (or him) say that this person will be in a permanent vegetative state.

This person's mother, who is "hovering over her/his corpse," notices small movements from her/him and swears that it is conscious movement, but the doctors declare it mere reflex.

Does this person have any hope of regaining consciousness? Would you pull the feeding tube from this person?

What is ironic is that Eric and Bill and like-minded individuals see some loss of 'liberty' in the Schiavo case. They hold dear the 'right to die'; what they are missing is the fact that their precious 'right' is going to become the right to pick and choose who is worthy of life. I wonder who in 1973 thought Roe vs. Wade would lead to 'partial birth abortion' , the killing of a fully viable infant. Slippery slope indeed.

... Eric is going to hell
... because he's not overcome with emotion
... therefore he's "evil" and 'indecent'
... "it's easy for others to convince you that human equals lizard equals corpse," he suggested no such thing
... "you're advocating the death of anyone who doesn't reach a certain IQ level," he suggested no such thing
... Terri did not have an IQ
... She could not have an IQ
... if one were to take an IQ sample of death-row inmates, I wonder what it would be
... 'death penalty' state ritual murder is ok tho
... because they're evil
... like Eric
... 'the good' call it justice
... they can't be guilty
... they're going to heaven
... "we now execute people who don't have a personality we like." he suggested no such thing
... and in the very next sentence, the flip side to soc*alism
... "In that case, can we start depriving the RTDs of food and water sometime soon?"
... Eric does not live like a conservative
... he's not going to heaven
... not long ago, Mr Chan sat down in his workshop near the beach, some hours later he and 300,000
others were swept away, poof, just like that
... more than 50,000 die every year from snake venom
... in the US, approx 16,000 from pain relief medication
... 10 million from malnourishment
... 1 million from wars
... Elvis, he's dead too
... so many die each year, so much suffering
... and Eric's meant to care about this one former empty shell
... all those resources that were spent on a permanent braindead for how long was it? 13 years IIRC
... and the permanent braindead oblivious
... that could have been spent on the living conscious suffering
... Eric even told you "It's long past time people got over the idea that a sustained heartbeat and breathing means much in regard to human presence. You can have a conversation with someone who has had their heart and/or lungs replaces by machines but having those organs intact will do nothing to imbue humanity in a body lacking the portions of the brain where human cogition resides."
... every day we make such choices
... that brand new SUV instead of 10 incubators to Mongolia
... poof, another 500 lives gone
... 8,000 die from the effects of carbon dioxide in the US alone every year, 50,000 world wide
... we still buy our cars
... Terri didn't care about cars, or carbon dioxide, or Mongolia
... because she was, well, you know
... I'm sure those wracked with emotionalism offered to fund Terri's upkeep
... but what I want to know is, why so much grief over one person and not another?

As a friend put it to me...

"The Terri Schiavo case I find irritating. So many people sticking their oar in to a difficult, painful and above all personal choice. I've seen C-list celebrities giving their views on the sanctity of human life... I kept trying to work out what their relationship to Schiavo was... only to realise they had none whatsoever."

So tell us, Lazar, how many incubators have you purchased and shipped abroad?

How many AIDS pills have you bought and mailed to Africa?

How many of Sally Struthers' kids do you send checks to every month?

On a personal note, my neighbor, who was a strong Terri Schiavo supporter, took unpaid time off from work and flew to Indonesia this spring. She worked, hands-on, for a couple of weeks, on the relief effort.

Did you see her when you were over there? Or did you miss that gig? Too busy researching statistics?

I have said nothing about heaven or hell, Lazar.

You seem very preoccupied with resources and their allocation by those in charge.

If I told you that each handicapped person in America took up an average of $60,000 a year in resources, would you like to make sure their right to die is enforced?

What about diabetics, especially those with juvenile diabetes? They're taking up all those resources with insulin and needles and research in surgery and genetics. Couldn't those resources be used to feed and house the poor?

Why not just enforce the right to die for every single diabetic? After all, they might pass this affliction on to their children, making a whole new generation of diabetics. It would be faster and easier just to ki... I mean, ensure that they fully realize their right to die.

Diabetes cured in one or two generations. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

For that matter, why do we spend so much resources for eyeglasses and contact lenses? If we could merely cull the herd of those genetically defective corrective lens wearing subhuman freaks, we would never need to spend all that money and time and effort in medical diagnosis and manufacturing to solve a problem for which Darwin gave us a faster, more efficient solution.

No more disgusting half-blind cripples to feed, only the pure, strong breed of true humans.

Thank you, Lazar. Thank you for your final solution to all of society's problems. If we implement it, we could see one hundred... no... one thousand years of strength and prosperity.

Nice Sue Dohnim...Likening being a diabetic or other cognitive handicapped to being to a Flat-liner missing 80% of her brain.

You can't regrow brain tissue, and even if you could, it would be completely empty of the personality and memories of the 1st brain that died and liquified away.

Then you yammer about cures for diabetes....as if a cure is coming soon for veggies....NOT!

Iblis M Schiavo has to notify the Schindlers when T Schiavo's ashes are interred by court order. That is his legal obligation. That will likely happen after the autopsy reults and closure of paperwork, and the physical threat to Michael Schiavo from emotionally disturbed religious "sanctity of life" people diminishes... Given their many lies, debunked abuse charges, and national sliming the Schindlers did on Michael Schiavo - plus the death threats Robert and Bobby Schindler stirred up...who can blame him for dealing as minimally as possible with the In-Laws From Hell??

The truth on the Schindlers is slowly coming out. The money demands. The lies about her condition. Their defiance of court orders. The counsel to M Schiavo to get a nice piece of ass since you can't "do" the wife...The slime of Bobby Schindler, who never visited his sister save for the early hospital days and after the RTL began paying his tab...."We know you haven't bothered visiting once in 9 years, but pretend to be loving and religiously devoted and trash Schiavo any chance you get when the TV cameras are running.

"The slime of Bobby Schindler, who never visited his sister save for the early hospital days and after the RTL began paying his tab..."

Um, according to official records, Michael Schiavo BANNED the Schindler children from visiting Terri for several years. It took a court order to re-instate their visitation rights.

Them damn pesky facts, again...

Dogstar your "official records" of slimey Bobby being banned while his Mom made bi-weekly visits is about as credible as the other ignorant RTL crap you pushed 2 months ago, like the "unimpeachable affidavits" from 4 RTL nurses that detailed murder attempts, broken bones, abuse and "conversations and sharing jokes" with Terri".

Peddle your lying crap elsewhere.

In hindsight, the Religious Right will look as ignorant and stupid about the Schiavo Affair - as it receeds and appears more of a circus set up by extreme religious folks gripped in psychosis --as they did right after 9/11 when they were saying the attacks were Jesus's revenge on a secular culture.

"I have said nothing about heaven or hell, Lazar."

I was responding to three people.

"You seem very preoccupied with resources and their allocation by those in charge."

Perhaps one day machines will produce enough for all our wants, and there will be no soci*lism to
destroy most of it.

"If I told you that each handicapped person in America took up an average of $60,000 a year in resources, would you like to make sure their right to die is enforced?"

... please don't be so emotional, the "living conscious suffering" bit might otherwise have
sunk in.

"Why not just enforce the right to die for every single diabetic? After all, they might pass this affliction on to their children"

"Thank you, Lazar. Thank you for your final solution to all of society's problems."

If you're suggesting that's my [and Eric's] reason for euthanasia of the permanent brain-dead under certain circs, it would be perhaps better to end this discussion... I mean I may as well be on a DU thread. See also Cedarford's response. Neither you nor Megan nor Dogstar nor Brewfan are listening to the points being made, just responding to what you imagine was said based on certain assumptions about the character of those who you disagree with.

Eugenics applied to the permanent brain-dead is an absurd concept... for several reasons.

Look, you're upset, and I'm sorry about that. It's really not my intention to make matters worse. It's just that I get irritated when people like Eric, myself, Bill and Jeff, when attempting rational discussion are immediately responded to with character assassinations. Perhaps it would be better to end this, put the last word in if you like.

"So tell us, Lazar, how many..."

Not your business. I also have a feeling that you completely missed the point being made.

"On a personal note, my neighbor, who was a strong Terri Schiavo supporter, took unpaid time off from work and flew to Indonesia this spring. She worked, hands-on, for a couple of weeks, on the relief effort."

... a decent person she is.

Seedy wrote:
Nice Sue Dohnim...Likening being a diabetic or other cognitive handicapped to being to a Flat-liner missing 80% of her brain.

Seedy, you misogynistic anti-semite, I didn't equate Terri's condition with diabetes, I was taking Lazar's argument for killing her to its logical conclusion.

Lazar made the point that we spend too many resources on people like Terri, which justifies their deaths. Why draw the line there? The past has shown us that indeed, the line never stays put.

Of course, Seedy, you're much too dense to ever make the connection. Or at least you won't make the connection until one of your children decides that you've outlived your usefulness and it's time for you to go be with Jesus.

And I like that 80% figure. Straight from Wikipedia, where anyone can make up any shit they like and have it proclaimed gospel by little leftists and fascists. Sounds like your kind of place, Seedy. You could be worshipped there as a god, as opposed to being a shlameal here.

"Lazar made the point that we spend too many resources on people like Terri, which justifies their deaths."

No, Lazar did not. You need to relax and read slowly, and please don't misrepresent my words.

Lazar wrote:
... please don't be so emotional, the "living conscious suffering" bit might otherwise have
sunk in.

Who's being emotional? You're the one bringing tsunami victims, snakebite victims, and other non-sequiters into this discussion, not me.

I merely pointed out that your argument about allocation of resources - to whit:

... all those resources that were spent on a permanent braindead for how long was it? 13 years IIRC ... I'm sure those wracked with emotionalism offered to fund Terri's upkeep ... but what I want to know is, why so much grief over one person and not another?

This desire to take resources away from those whom you deem unworthy and give them to those who are worthy has been expressed by others in the past.

No emotion has been expressed here. Merely logical examination of history. If you want to deny what you're advocating, that's your emotional problem.

Lazar wrote further:
I mean I may as well be on a DU thread.

The person who sounds like he should be on DU is you, Mr. Emotional. And I quote below the biggest pile of moonbat droppings I've seen on this site:

... Eric is going to hell ... because he's not overcome with emotion ... therefore he's "evil" and 'indecent' ... "it's easy for others to convince you that human equals lizard equals corpse," he suggested no such thing ... "you're advocating the death of anyone who doesn't reach a certain IQ level," he suggested no such thing ... Terri did not have an IQ ... She could not have an IQ ... if one were to take an IQ sample of death-row inmates, I wonder what it would be ... 'death penalty' state ritual murder is ok tho ... because they're evil ... like Eric ... 'the good' call it justice ... they can't be guilty ... they're going to heaven ... "we now execute people who don't have a personality we like." he suggested no such thing ... and in the very next sentence, the flip side to soc*alism ... "In that case, can we start depriving the RTDs of food and water sometime soon?" ... Eric does not live like a conservative ... he's not going to heaven ... not long ago, Mr Chan sat down in his workshop near the beach, some hours later he and 300,000 others were swept away, poof, just like that ... more than 50,000 die every year from snake venom ... in the US, approx 16,000 from pain relief medication ... 10 million from malnourishment ... 1 million from wars ... Elvis, he's dead too ... so many die each year, so much suffering ... and Eric's meant to care about this one former empty shell ... all those resources that were spent on a permanent braindead for how long was it? 13 years IIRC ... and the permanent braindead oblivious ... that could have been spent on the living conscious suffering ... Eric even told you "It's long past time people got over the idea that a sustained heartbeat and breathing means much in regard to human presence. You can have a conversation with someone who has had their heart and/or lungs replaces by machines but having those organs intact will do nothing to imbue humanity in a body lacking the portions of the brain where human cogition resides." ... every day we make such choices ... that brand new SUV instead of 10 incubators to Mongolia ... poof, another 500 lives gone ... 8,000 die from the effects of carbon dioxide in the US alone every year, 50,000 world wide ... we still buy our cars ... Terri didn't care about cars, or carbon dioxide, or Mongolia ... because she was, well, you know ... I'm sure those wracked with emotionalism offered to fund Terri's upkeep ... but what I want to know is, why so much grief over one person and not another?

As a friend put it to me...

"The Terri Schiavo case I find irritating. So many people sticking their oar in to a difficult, painful and above all personal choice. I've seen C-list celebrities giving their views on the sanctity of human life... I kept trying to work out what their relationship to Schiavo was... only to realise they had none whatsoever."

But if we killed everybody that was brain dead, who would post at DU?

No Dohnim, you are the one pushing the "Terri as having just another handicap" line. As if being a Flat-liner, irreversably vegetative, on life support should be treated as just another disability....like a co-worker dealing with diabetes...Your comparison, not others...

The public never bought into that crap. They know what being a vegetative on tubes is about and don't buy the "just another disability like diabetes" argument.

And cost is a factor. There is no point spending 3,000 dollars a week on futile, heroic care for a vegetative neonate with no chance of ever having cognitive awareness via improvement/recovery. Nor any sense in draining society's scarce resources by spending 60-80,000 per annum in taxpayer paid care attempting to extend the vegetative dying phase of Alzheimer patients from months to years. Same deal as when indigent families demand expensive therapies for other conditions that doctors and ethics boards determine are of no medical benefit...the care is denied.

Poor Seedy. Everybody's lying except him. He's the keeper of the ultimate truth. It's a shame all these unbelievers have to be constantly re-educated.

Ah, the burdens the righteous must bear...

No Dogstar, the 4 affidavits you were pasting everywhere last month to support your RTL beliefs turned out to be riddled with lies. 89 abuse allegations determined unfounded and unsubstantiated by the state of Florida.

Your claim of "official records" banning slimeball Bobby Schindler as the reason he never bothered visiting his sister for 10 years is another lie you are trying to push.

I do find the eager willingness of certain smarmy followers of the RTL movement, like you Dogbreath, to lie and deceive in the name of God quite amusing.

Shouldn't you turn over a new leaf, follow the 10 Commandments, and try peddling the truthful facts, instead of your typical bullshit, Dogstar??

Lazar "8,000 die from the effects of carbon dioxide in the US alone every year, 50,000 world wide
"

Like plant growth?

WTF?

Unless you're breathing into a plastic bag, there are no effects of CO2.

"...turned out to be riddled with lies..."

And now, once again, it's time to use the phrase that affects Seedy the way salt affects a slug:

Hey dude, got a cite?

(Hee-hee!)

OMG, Cedar's comment about the RTL's dollars being tossed around is just....hilarious. Having been in the RTL movement for 25 yrs I can tell you without a doubt that there is NO MONEY. LOL!!!!!!!!!!

It's just too funny to even imply that.

Rightwingsparkle,

You have correctly observed that there are some who comment here that are not constrained by facts.

"Who's being emotional? You're the one bringing tsunami victims, snakebite victims, and other non-sequiters into this discussion, not me."

The point of doing so was simply to illustrate - a lot of people die.

"This desire to take resources away from those whom you deem unworthy"

Terri did not own those resources, they were being supplied, and at the end they were not - that's different from taking away resources. "Whom"? - there was no person in. I'm a free-marketeer. Your comparison is altogether absurd.

"The person who sounds like he should be on DU is you, Mr. Emotional. And I quote below the biggest pile of moonbat droppings I've seen on this site:"

The mood was slightly irritated, slightly tired bemusement.

"Unless you're breathing into a plastic bag, there are no effects of CO2."

Eeek, yeah you're right. Should have read combined fossil-fuel emissions inc. particulates and CO. My bad.

lazar, thanks for clearing the air

ba-dum-dum

[cymbal crash] Whey!

but in that case, lazar, people don't die from CO from cars (at leasy driving around in traffic). They die from CO in a closed garage (suicide) or CO as a result of a faulty furnace or space heater.

loose stools, bucko.

Lazar wrote:

"This desire to take resources away from those whom you deem unworthy"

Terri did not own those resources, they were being supplied, and at the end they were not - that's different from taking away resources. "Whom"? - there was no person in. I'm a free-marketeer. Your comparison is altogether absurd.

No, your obtuseness in your denial is absurd.

I once again quote you, because you don't seem to remember what you post from one button-click to the next:

... all those resources that were spent on a permanent braindead for how long was it? 13 years IIRC ... I'm sure those wracked with emotionalism offered to fund Terri's upkeep ... but what I want to know is, why so much grief over one person and not another?

Whose "resources?" Whose "funds?" Who is "another?"

Is your forgetfulness a symptom of cerebral anoxia? You have an inalienable right to die, you know. It's right there in the Constitution, Eleventeenth Amendment.

but in that case, lazar, people don't die from CO from cars (at leasy driving around in traffic). They die from CO in a closed garage (suicide) or CO as a result of a faulty furnace or space heater."

Gnnnnn. I should never trust my 'memory.' I've done a quick search... particulates, NO and NO2. Causes: lung and heart diseases, cancer, asthma. The 8,000 figure was from a few years back and I can't find the paper. The 50,000 should have been 500,000.

Whose "resources?"

'Public.'

Whose "funds?"

Private.

Who is "another?"

Anyone else. And, it was a question.

Lazar wrote:
Whose "resources?"
'Public.'

Let us now revisit my earlier response:

This desire to take resources away from those whom you deem unworthy and give them to those who are worthy has been expressed by others in the past.

I'm sorry you can't read, Mr. Emotional.

Lazar wrote:
Whose "funds?"
Private.

Public funds were not used for Terri's upkeep, except for her last few years in the hospice, when Michael applied and got Medicaid for her while he had (according to himself) $50,000 left in her trust fund.

Lazar wrote:
Who is "another?"
Anyone else. And, it was a question.

Anyone else (in your eyes, worthy) but Terri (in your eyes, unworthy).

And it was a rhetorical question at the end of moonbat diatribe.

Still going to let me have the last word, or was that mere sophistry as well?

"I'm sorry you can't read, Mr. Emotional."

I have no idea what you're referring to anymore.

"Anyone else (in your eyes, worthy)"

Weeeell, you sound like a decent enough person, so I can probably live with you thinking I'm a Nazi-eugenicist. Not like I could persuade you otherwise anyway.

"And it was a rhetorical question"

I'm afraid it wasn't, but you don't have to believe that either.

"Still going to let me have the last word"

Yep, I give up.

Take it away...

Lazar wrote:
I have no idea what you're referring to anymore.

Of course you don't. You've hit the bong so much that you are no longer capable of linear, rational thought.

Below is a little paraphrase of the arguments, just for you and other addlebrains. Note I said "paraphrased", to cut your pedantic "Waaaa Lazar no say that waaaaa" bullshit off at the knees:

You: You treat Eric bad.

I don't know why all of these public resources were used up on this braindead vegetable when they could have been used FOR THE CHILDREN and FOR THE POOR and FOR SICK KITTIES. Why don't we help the CHILDREN, POOR, AND SICK KITTIES instead of that stupid braindead icky girl?

Me: You know who else wanted to kill disabled people to free up public resources? Thaaaat's right.

Hey, how about let's kill all disabled people, even ones that are just a little disabled so that a WHOLE BUNCH of resources could be freed up. Just like you-know-who wanted to do.

You: Oh you're so emotional I can't believe how emotional you are that's why you're so wrong because you're emotional.

Me: Nope, you're emotional because you're using typical Democrat philosophy of FOR THE POOR and the CHILDREN and the KITTIES!!

You: I didn't say any of that you don't know what you're talking about they weren't Terri's resources, see? You're wrong!

Me: :sigh: What were *you* talking about before when you said "resources?"

You: PUBLIC resources. And you never did answer my question.

Me: Public? Exactly. And it was a bullshit question.

You: No it wasn't!

There, that brings us up to speed.

Lazar wrote:
Yep, I give up.
Take it away...

Nah, you're full of it. You'll keep going as long as I keep insulting your intelligence. That's because you're just like the typical moonbat - you think you're smart, but you're incapable of having one single unaided thought.

Sue Dohnim - You know who else wanted to kill disabled people to free up public resources? Thaaaat's right.

Only an ignorant slut like Sue calls a person cognitively dead for 15 years, a Flat-liner whose dead brain rotted down to the brain stem...

A handicapped person - just like all the diabetics you know....

Wrong, Sue.

And the typical vegetative doesn't have an unusually devoted spouse caring for them free for 15 years, or a 1 million cash kitty from a bogus malpractice lawsuit, like T Shiavo's husk did.

For most veggies, the taxpayers start paying from Day 1. And when taxpayers pay for futile spending in one area, they may forgoe vital lifesaving spending in other areas.

Do our resources go to intensive medical care for extending the dying phase of Alzheimer vegetatives or do taxpayers invest in a trauma center that saves lives of healthy children and adults. Does the money squandered on one Terri Schiavo divert funds from the State repairing a dangerous stretch of road that kills 1-2 motorists a year?

2 weeks to go until the autopsy of your "handicapped" rutabaga is made public and all the Schindler & RTL lies start falling apart....

lauraw,

You know I'm trying very hard, don't you? DON'T YOU?????

Sorry, pressure release valve opened up there for just a brief moment. I'm better now.

Seedy wrote:
And the typical vegetative doesn't have an unusually devoted spouse caring for them free for 15 years, or a 1 million cash kitty from a bogus malpractice lawsuit, like T Shiavo's husk did.

Seedy, this is why I love your posts - because just when I think you've reached a critical mass of stupidity in one of them, you manage to squeeze a little more into the next one until it collapses upon itself and becomes a singularity.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding in this particular one.

You assert that Michael is a loving husband who only wanted to care for his wife, then in the very same sentence you imply that Michael's motives in bringing the malpractice suit were suspect.

Oh, and Seedy, Michael stopped giving a damn about his wife right after he got the malpractice money in 1993. He only kept her alive because he couldn't find a legal way to kill her until Felos got him one.

That's 3 years, Seedy, not 15.

And here's the evidence. Transcript excerpt from November 1993 guardianship hearing:

Q. What was her bladder condition? MS. She had a UTI.

Q. What is that?
MS. Urinary tract infection.

Q. What did the doctor tell you treatment for that would be?
MS. Antibiotic usually.

Q. And did he tell you what would occur if you failed to treat that infection? What did he tell you?
MS. That sometimes urinary tract infection will turn to sepsis.

Q. And sepsis is what?
MS. An infection throughout the body.

Q. And what would the result of untreated sepsis be to the patient?
MS. The patient would pass on.

Q. So when you made the decision not to treat Terri's bladder infection you, in effect, were making a decision to allow her to pass on?
MS. I was making a decision on what Terri would want.

Q. Had the bladder condition been treated?
MS. Yes.

Q. And was...what was the reason that the bladder condition was treated?
MS. Sable Palms Nursing Home said they could not do that by some Florida law which wasn't stated.

Q. But you didn't change your opinion or your decision to not treat the bladder condition?
MS. We did change it.

Q. Correct?
MS. Repeat the question.

Q. You did not change your decision not to treat the bladder condition, correct?
MS. I had to change my decision.

Q. Sable Palms changed it for you?
Attorney Nillson Objection

Q. Okay. Is there any reason that you would not make the same decision that you previously made if the problem came up again?
MS. Repeat your question. You're losing me here.

Q. Let me be more specific. If your wife developed another condition that could result in her death, is there any reason that you would not take the position that you're not going to treat that condition and you're going to instruct the doctor not to treat that condition?
MS. I wouldn't instruct anybody, no.

Q. You instructed the doctor not to treat the condition, correct?
Attorney Nillson Objection

Q. You did instruct the doctor not to treat her bladder condition, correct?
MS. Uh-huh. Yes.

Q. If a similar...would you do the same?
MS. I'm thinking.

Q. Take your time.
MS. I probably wouldn't instruct the doctor to do it.

Q. So you've changed your opinion?
MS. Sort of, yeah.

Q. Why have you changed your opinion?
MS. Because evidently there is a law out there that says I can't do it.

Q. Is that the only reason?
MS. Basically, maybe.

Q. What you're telling me is, is that there is nothing in your belief or feelings that have changed. The only thing that has changed is the fact that you perceive the law prevents you to do what you intended to do?
MS. Correct.

Q. What did you do with your wife's jewelry?
MS. My wife's jewelry?

Q. Yeah.
MS. Um, I think I took her engagement ring and her...what do they call it...diamond wedding band and made a ring for myself.

Q. What did you do with her cats?
MS. Her cats were put to sleep n the advice of my mother-in-law. [This statement was refuted by veterinarian who euthanized the cats]

On the Schindlers caring about Terri, Brewfan is correct and you're not.

Q. And prior to that time, they [the Schindlers] had access to the medical records and they could talk to the physicians and the nursing home people about their daughter, correct?

MS. Correct.

Q. Okay. And after that period of time that changed, didn't it?
[Attorney Nillson Objection]

Q. Alright. After the altercation on February 14, 1993, the Schindlers were not allowed any information concerning their daughter's immediate condition, is that correct?

MS. The order was given not to give out any information to anybody but myself or the doctor.

Q. Okay. And what was...why was that order given?

MS. Because I figured that the nursing home was having problems, first off, with the certified nurses aids giving wrong information out over the phone, information to the family. And second of all, since my in-laws showed no care about showing up or calling me when Terri was in the hospital, I figured they didn't care. [Bullshit]

Q. Explain that. The Schindlers showed no care about what?

MS. Terri being in the hospital in March. [Michael ordered notification cut off in February 1993, but criticizes Schindlers for not being there in March]

Q. Are you saying that you didn't think they cared about their daughter at all?

MS. They never showed up.

Q. So the reason that they were not at the hospital because they were not at the hospital in March, you decided that they should not ever have any access to her medical records or medical treatment again?

MS. I agree.

Q. When you made the decision that you were not going to treat Terri's infection and you were going to, in effect, allow her to die, did you think that you had any obligations to tell her parents?

MS. To answer that question, I probably would have let them know sooner or later.

Q. You never did let them know, though, did you?

MS. No.

Q. When you say you would probably have let them know sooner or later, were you contemplating a certain time frame when you would let them know?

MS. I don't know what my thoughts were right then.

"...a 1 million cash kitty from a bogus malpractice lawsuit..."

?

Why was it bogus?

Sue,

An excellent series of comments. Thanks for taking the time.