Constantine? I always thought the gayest part of that show was Ryan Seacrest "playfully" wrestling with Simon all the time.

That new HGTV show, Desparate Houseplants, is really steamy I tell you.

Full frontal stamens and explicit pollenation scenes. Wowza!

Right on Sharp, and did you see the pistil on that hot little geranium! Woof!

I'm confused. I thought gay folk were exactly the same as us hetero types. Why, then, do they need separate (but equal?) TV networks?

Yeah, I mean they already have MTV.

And E!

And the Food Network HGTV

And a decent chunk of the Learning Channel.

But they don't have marriage in Oregon. Yippee!

(not really vindictively glad, just glad our rule of law isn't going to be trampled underfoot for political expidiency. I hope a limited rights bill passes this legislature, but it shouldn't just be marriage renamed)

HBO? When Mr. Wu says 'cocksucker', I don't think he means it as a compliment. I find it more heteronormative than other channels.

They passed civil unions in Connecticut.

One gay guy actually said 'Well we're on the bus now, but still at the back of the bus.'

Insulting analogy, yes?
The whole time they did this civil unions thing as a necessary first step toward gay 'marriage' and everybody knew it.
If I could get the rest of my family to go with me, I'd leave this stupid state.

Well- sorry- didn't pass yet. But it will. Final vote is next week I think.
Loose shit

Damn, I shouldn't listen to news radio with only half an ear while I'm working.
They voted it in yesterday, Gov. Rell will sign it.
sheesh

HBO? When Mr. Wu says 'cocksucker', I don't think he means it as a compliment. I find it more heteronormative than other channels.

I was thinking of Oz. I don't watch it, but I'm told there's a bit of man-on-man action there.

Oh-- and I was also thinking of Bill Maher.

Bill Maher - yep, got me there. I wonder if he is of the self-loathing type of gay man or just the plain vanilla type.

And what's with all the biker shows on all the "Discovery" channels?
Big sweaty men with tools, who double as artists? Sounds like a squeakhole stuffer's dream to me.
Hell even Spike has a show on it with a guy named Stacey.

So if there's enough demand for THREE networks to cater to gays, then how many networks could there be to appeal to conservatives? We're going to take up all the available broadband! MWAHAHAHAHA!

Besdies, there are already gay channels on the dial. They're called NBC and CBS and Bravo and Trio and HGTV and BBC-America and HBO and Showtime and Cinemax and... well, pretty much every frickin' channel except the Speed Channel

True, and I wonder if a group of mega-rich-gay-guys like David Geffen are behind funding for stations that otherwise aren't commerically viable. And yes it's redunduant, but so was Cato: THE RIGHT MUST BOYCOTT!!!

*Gulp"

HDTV is gay????! I have to give up HDTV????!

Shit. I just finished burning my tux.

"[Cal Ripken, Jr. has] voided his bowels at least once a day for 15,678 straight days... hence his well-earned nickname, "The Iron Man.")

Wouldn't he more properly be nicknamed, "The Fiber Man"?

So which one the gay networks will be Al Gore's?

Insulting analogy, yes?

Yes!

As one of the few gay readers I feel compelled to speak out. I hate all of the gay programming I have seen on cable to date.
Queer Eye,
Queer as Folk,
The L word,

Its all a bunch of sickening tripe and littered with stereotypes. And it all really seems to cater to fag-hags to be honest. I know a few shallow empty, queers who attempt to live some of those stereotypes, but most of us are really kind of tired of that crap. The only gay show on cable I can watch regularly os OZ, but then it's only for the occasional hot man on man action.

Sort of related to Marty's point - I remember an Ann Coulter column in which she nailed perfectly the reason I can't stand to watch so much as a millisecond of that disgusting Sex and the City show:

"This is not girls talking like girls, it's not even girls talking like guys exactly, but girls talking like gay men."

Exactly so.

In another column I can't find right now, she noted that even gay people aren't as obsessed with "the gay lifestyle" as straight white liberals. Take the sluttiest, most desperate gay and put him up next to any random Beverly Hills socialite, and it's a good bet that she'll know far more about "his culture" than he will. You can't fucking get away from all the goddamn gays on TV, and speaking as a gay woman myself I'm fucking sick of them.

Couldn't we get three new heterosexual TV channels on the air? None of this fucking gay shit allowed, catering to straight viewers instead?

Well no, of course not. Silly of me to ask. That'd be a fucking hate crime and a conscienceless perpetuation of the heteronormative cultural enslavement of an oppressed minority, wouldn't it now? It's okay and normal to have two mommies!

Feh.

Way to go Megan. I sometimes feel that these horrible kitchy "GAY" shows are illustrations of how liberals would like us gay people to act. Like they have formed a mold of what they consider "safe" and are trying to force us in there. A mold where gay men are fixated on redecorating and getting fit, and screwing anyone we please. And Lesbians are always masculine, self-confident and clueless about the same things that the ideal gay men consider second-nature. It's sickening and demeaning, straight liberals think we are fashionable birds to show off to there freinds. Most conservatives are fascinated for a few minutes, then revert to not giving a shit. At least that seems to be my experience. Oh and another thing, I really dont give a damn about getting married. I have been with the same damn guy for 10 years now. A marriage license will have NO, I mean ZERO impact on our relationship what-so-friggin ever. I will still have to go home and listen to him bitch at me about getting the gutters replaced and leaving dirty clothes around the house. No government recognition could ever change that. My only excape from that nagging voice I hear in my nightmares every night will be sweet death.

"This is not girls talking like girls, it's not even girls talking like guys exactly, but girls talking like gay men."

Sure it was Ann Coulter? Tina Fey said the same exact thing.

Then again, I guess it's a thought that has occurred to most people.

it all really seems to cater to fag-hags to be honest.

In my Gay Rumor Du Jour piece, I said Wonkette probably wasn't gay, since it's only straight liberal women who are THAT into gay stuff. And that even gay men are eventually like, "Hey, ix-ne on the ag-fay ing-they all ime-tay, okay?

Ed in Texas....this one:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7433219/site/newsweek/

well, Marty...sweetie...Why don't you just leave?

Death seems too drastic.

Another thing I have noticed in life are that fag hags (MAGGIE CHO for example) are usually sad little straight girls who wish to live vicariously through the closest gay guy she can find. They see all that casual sex with hot guys and as personal conquests since no self-respecing straight guy worth having sex with would go anywhere near them. Also surrounding themselves with men that would never have sex with them, probably allows them to feel pretty, for once in there sad, fat little lives.

Fucking annoying, isn't it Marty? I don't know how much you get of this but my biggest problem is with the touchy-feely liberals.

You know the kind, don't you? They're the ones that immediately try to burnish their tolerance credentials by making a big show out of touching homosexuals. Like, yeah, lady, I'm so fucking glad you're aware that putting your arm around my shoulders or kissing my cheek won't actually make you start eating pussy in 8 seconds flat. I'm so glad you're aware that AIDS isn't transmitted through skin-to-skin contact. Really. It makes me feel FUCKING SPECIAL that you've taken the time to research this.

And it makes me very happy, too, that you've ascertained the political leanings of homosexuals as a group, so you're aware that the probability that I'll welcome your opening remark of "Boy, Dumb-ya is a shithead, isn't he?" after you see me kissing my wife - you're aware that that probability is greater than zero.

Of course, if you thought of me as a fucking person rather than as a component of a group and a vehicle for demonstrating your vaunted openmindedness, you wouldn't take my political inclinations for granted, and you wouldn't fucking open with such a ridiculously lame and frankly downright rude remark at a friendly cocktail party, would you now?

As for gay marriage - y'know what? Fuck gay marriage. We're not being stoned to death and we're not being burned alive in the streets - I'm pretty fucking happy with that, thanks. That's a lot of progress in a very short time. Show some fucking gratitude and stop holding those obscene, disgusting "gay pride" parades. You're filthy little degenerates, you want to advertise that to the entire goddamn world, fine, but to it the fuck out of my sight, you miserable pervert creeps.

Last one I saw was a year ago, in the middle of the day on a heavy-traffic street in the middle of DC. Gay men in leather pants with cutouts so their hairy asses could hang out, yelling obscenities at a bunch of poor straight people who were just trying to cross the street WITH THEIR CHILDREN; lesbians dressed up as NUNS grabbing at straight women who just walked a little too close to them. Large bins by the side of the road plastered with signs reading "GOT LUBE?" Timing it real nice so all the schoolkids can see that shit when they get out.

This is something to be proud of? This is something to celebrate? This is something I'm supposed to identify with? I'm supposed to be loyal to this fuckin' "cause?"

DON'T MAKE ME FUCKING PUKE.

Look. I grew up in Louisiana. Heart of the fucking Bible belt, right? All those lousy Christians telling me I'm going to hell for fucking girls?

Well, not so much.

My parents had no problem. My aunts had no problem. My cousins didn't give it a second thought. I go to a dance (yeah, south of Baton Rouge! Ain't that the most amazing thing) and my wife and I are introduced together as a couple. No one's embarrassed and no one makes a big deal out of it. Why? Because it isn't.

No one gives it a second thought in the South. Because we're actually brought up to have (gasp!) manners. And no Christian and no Southerner has a political investment in my future.

Get on up to the North, and what do you find? Liberals who see me as a political cause and a walking crucifix. And I can tell you right off the bat that that's a thousand times more offensive than any priest asking me quietly and respectfully in private if I want to repent my sins. At least he cares about my soul. Liberals? They want a two-second spot of copy in a 25-second ad.

Based on the culture alone, I'd marry a man tomorrow if I were the least bit attracted to one. I fucking hate gay people. Hell, I'd sign up with Jerry Falwell Ministries and Bob Jones University if they'd let me.

Ace:

I don't watch SNL much. Coulter's column is quoted here by Ben Shapiro.

megan,
I grew up about 80 miles north of New Orleans. I agree with you totally on the whole "pride" parade business. Trust me, most of those people are nothing I could ever be proud of. I do not see it as self-hate. I do not hate myself or what I am. I am actually pretty pleased with myself for the most part. In case you are really angry at these gay people, try not to let it get to you. They deserve only pity for there obscene actions, they seek to anger and outrage and I refuse to give them that. Also keep in mind all the queers that you will never see. Because they have the good grace and are polite enough not to brodcast there sexual activities for everyone to see. I remember hearing about some gay men who took some time out from there parade to defecate on the steps of a catholic church. It was at that moment that I started questioning "gay" culture. That's all I have to say about that.

I opened this comment thread to give it up to Ace for his great line "Every time I sit down to watch TV anymore I feel like I'm taking part in a psychological test to see how I respond to homoerotic stimuli", because it's funny and true, but now I find myself blown away by the comments by Megan and Marty. You guys rock.

And I can't help noting the irony: when gay folks criticize the "gay culture" with the same criticisms social conservatives use, nobody screams "homophobe". Hmmmmm .......

This is a dicey thing to mention, but there is a difference between homosexuality itself and "gay culture," and an annoyance with the latter does not necessarily indicate hostility towards the former.

I hate to once again trot out My Gay Friend, but in his own words, he "hates sissies."

I don't know if I "hate sissies," but I would say that as a general rule, between a gay guy who's sort of straight-acting and a gay guy who's got a lot of the standard-issue gay mannerisms, it's more likely I'll want to befriend the former than the latter.

I've met some gay guys who are a bit femme but are nevertheless cool and basically fun people to talk to at a bar.

But yeah, the whole supergay thing is something I don't particularly like, even though I can get past it if a person is cool enough. Just the same as a lot of people don't like macho-acting guys, or lunk-headed acting guys, etc. If it's okay to dislike "macho Guido type straight guys," without being accused of being heterophobic, why can't someone say, "Well, gays are okay, but seriously, sometimes I just can't deal with that very arch, very camp, very flaming gay schtick" (which, let's face it, is partly a put on and a bit of guerilla performance art anyhow).

A sexual preference does not dictate a personality type, and I hope that it's not now being claimed that "tolerance" requires not only a tolerance for sexual preference but for personality types that one just doesn't like for whatever reason.

I mean, if you watch Amazing Race, Lynn and Alex are f'n' annoying. Everything with them is a childish sexual double-entendre, usually gay... I mean, they're told to buy fish at a market, and one exclaims, "Ohhh! I know nothing at all about fish!"

Geeze, even I'm more subtle than that.

I don't like Charles Nelson Reilly or Rip Taylor, and it baffles me that someone would design a persona around those two obnoxious-and-unfunny guys.

(Oh, but the show wouldn't be the same without them, of course. Very annoying people are crucial for these kinds of shows.

Just wouldn't want to have to spend more than five minutes in their company. Not because they're gay; just because they're what I used to term OBNF, or obnoxious but not funny.)

Interesting. Kinda feel the same bout it in that little-goes-a-long-way sense. I do find that 'character' pretty funny usually, but it needs to be the supporting character, can't be the whole vibe of the show. Still though, I feel differently when I encounter that over the top shit in real life. There it's instantly too much. What I find amusing on the stage makes my skin crawl a little in the real world. And quickly.

I would also point out the qualms with that 'Lynn-n-Alex faggory' aren't exclusively heterosxual in origin. I lurk sometimes on Datalounge (my dirty secret. I'm straight but I have this flamer streak in me for libelous celeb bashing gossip. Sorry. It's not a preference, I was born that way, OK?) They do an 'Amazing Race' rundown after every show, and there is a huge schizm over those two. A hell of a lot of the homosexual male posters there despise, DESPISE that 'scratch-your-eyes-out' school of flamboyant bitchery and slag on them mercilessly. Me I like 'em. Find em funny. Can't center a show round them, but a pretty hilarious counterpoint to the overtesteroned idiocy of other racers like Ray (thanfully gone).

NB- If Rob and Amber can come over from survivor, why can't Lena and Kristy go on survivor now? Hell, why can't Lena have her own damn show?

Marty:

Very much agreed. It's just not a question of "self-loathing" as Clinton (most recently and most publically) tried to make it. It's a question of having the basic decency to keep your sex life out of other people's faces. I don't see straight people having "Heterosexual Pride Parades" or men shouting "I LOVE TO FUCK GIRLS!" on street corners. On the contrary, if straight people did the kinds of thigns gay people are routinely allowed, no, encouraged to do, they'd be hauled off to jail for "hate crimes" and/or public indecency and sexual harassment.

I hope you're right about the whole "loud, visible minority" meme. I really want to believe it. For a long time, I had myself convinced that that really was the case - that we never hear about, or see, the vast majority of decent gay people because they don't call attention to themselves in the first place, and don't feel the need to make a public spectacle out of whom they sleep with.

More and more, though, I'm reluctantly being forced to admit that perhaps that isn't the case. I don't want to draw any direct comparisons with Moslem terrorists here (although I've heard more than one gay jackass say that America "doesn't deserve to exist" if we don't allow gay "marriage"), but am I the only one reminded of all the sophomoric, hypocritical, mealy-mouthed pabulum about the "vast silent majority" of Moslems who really do deplore violence?

If I had seen one video, photograph, or account of 500-1000 Moslems celebrating in the streets, burning the American flag, and chanting "Death to America," I would not conclude that most Moslems hate America. If I had seen two, I would reserve judgement. Three, I would start to have doubts. Four, I would be ambivalent. Five. Twenty-five. Fifty. Five hundred...

These incidents are no longer even remarkable. No one is shocked that Moslems celebrate the loss of innocent life. It's almost expected of them. No one is angry that mosques around the world praise the hijackers and call for fresh jihads against America. It's what we've come to expect. No one is surprised that $100 million can be raised in a couple of weeks for the families of evil murdering filth. It's simply not remarkable. No one bothers to report it. It's what we expect. It's what we always expect.

It's what we always fucking expect.

And I really don't want to wind up at a point in history when gay people, in exactly the same way, are expected to behave in an obscene fashion in public, while everyone else tolerates it or just shrugs it off - because it has become, quite simply, the norm. I don't want that to happen. I don't want gays making treasonous statements about the United States to be accepted as representative examples of their self-defined group.

Gays are already expected, much like blacks, to be liberal Democrats. How then if gays are one day also expected to be vulgar, immoral, Godless, hysterical, bullying, self-obsessed and intolerant traitors?

I just hope I'm wrong. I just hope that isn't the case already.

PS. Nice to find a third Southerner here. :)

http://www.thedesertsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050713/COLUMNS25/507130340/1085/NEWS01
http://www.qtelevision.com/site/
http://www.qtelevision.com/site/iwantqnetworkpop.asp

Mayor's vision fully in focus
Cindy Uken
The Desert Sun
July 13, 2005

As a member of the Palm Springs Human Rights Commission in the 1990s, Ron Oden was instrumental in getting Black Entertainment Television included in the local programming lineup. Now Mayor, Oden is lobbying to get more programming included that focuses on yet another minority group - gays and lesbians.

But his vision for what it could bring is much broader than local programming; it's an economic opportunity.

Oden, widely thought to be the country's first openly gay black mayor, is lobbying strenuously to get Q Television Network, a Palm Springs-based network, included on the Time Warner Cable television lineup. Q Television Network is a nationally syndicated gay television network run by and programmed for an audience that identifies itself as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender - and straight. It would be a natural fit for Palm Springs, which boasts a significant gay and lesbian population.

But for Oden, this is about so much more than just adding a network that is gay- and lesbian-based; it's about doing what's right for Palm Springs. And that's what really gets his creative juices flowing.

This is the place where noted retailers like Nordstrom and J. Crew frequently come for print advertising and catalog shoots.

More than 800 shooting days - including movies, TV shows, commercials and still photography - netted the valley $28 million in revenues in 2004, according to the Inland Empire Film Commission.

With the right production studio, Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley just might be able to take things to the next level. Theoretically, it could become a Hollywood satellite that turns media production into a source for year-round, high-paying jobs?

"If they get on Time Warner, they are going to build a production studio in the city," Oden said. "It gives us another opportunity to do things here. They're going to syndicate some national shows and broadcast from here on a daily basis. We're moving, baby."

Oden said one of the complaints he often hears is that there is no place in Palm Springs to produce programs; if Q Television Network builds a studio here, that would void that complaint.

Time Warner corporate officers are trying to negotiate a nationwide agreement with the type of network product Q Television Network offers, said Kathi Jacobs, director of government and community relations for Time Warner. The company is considering three different products in the same network genre; Q Television Network is one of them. She said a decision in expected "sometime in the future."

Carol Hinnant, vice president of acquisitions for Q Television Network, said Tuesday, "We are still talking with Time Warner and hope for a positive resolution in the next couple of months."

As I've gotten to know Oden better during his tenure as mayor - and watch how he works - there are no accidents. Most everything he does is by design.

Earlier this year, he talked of his vision to reestablish Palm Springs as a playground for the stars. He enlisted the help of actors, singers, writers and others to brainstorm ways to attract more stars and visitors to the city - and bring the Hollywood allure back to the desert.

Once a bit static, the picture is starting to become much clearer. It's becoming a don't-miss drama.