You needed a sexier torso inside the shirt.

(That's not your week pecs, is it?)

Who'd want to wear a shirt identified with that guy?

Dusty knows shirts, and you see who they have modeling theirs.

I thought the left chest thing would be good but changed my mind when I saw the actual shirt.

It looks too, well, 'put together.' Like if I wore it I'd look like I was a part of something.

A white shirt with a stark black larger logo on the center front I would have bought. It would look tough, yet reasonably generic.

Didn't like dark grey or black. Would never wear it in those colors.

Like the new death card better than the old one. A lot better.

Your explanation for Ace's "retirement" is confusing. What else is new.

I bought a shirt. Given that it now markets a website that no longer really exists, I figure it has retro-cool written all over it, like my Doogie Howser, M.D. t-shirt.

However, I was reluctant to buy a shirt because-- let's be honest-- I'd rather have something more utilitarian than a shirt.

Like a Garfield Ridge neon pink banana-hammock.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Ahhhh... the man with the gayest name on the internet, Gaylord Ravenal, makes a return.

Where you been?

LauraW,

Yeah, that's what my friend was getting at with the "corporate" thing. It's like a military emblem or something. I thought smaller was better, and so I resisted the big honking central image. But I guess that's more like a novelty t-shirt.

As for colors... well, I guess next time, if there is one, which there won't be, Ace will offer white.

Which seems to be a lame color to Ace, but if that's what the ladies want...

Hell, he could offer pink. Why not?

As a matter of fact-- why didn't he?

I disagree about the emblem being made larger and centered on the chest idea. I'd feel like some super-villain reject wearing that. Retarded children would be matching that shirt with a left over dracula cape and trick-or-treat as Mega-Mongoloid.

No thanks.

mjg

Personally, I don't think it's the design that held up sales. Different people have different tastes, and if it looked some other way it may have sold more...or it may have sold less.

Think about it. Why do people buy t-shirts with logos and junk on them? I don't really buy them for the looks, although it helps. It seems that the best sellers are for events that people have gone to, like rock concerts or conventions or colleges. How many people have t-shirts that display web sites? Pfft, the only ones we have in our house were GIVEN to us as a promotional thing...

...which may not be a bad idea for future reference. Ace could have this thing where, if you donate X number of dollars you get a free t-shirt. But Ace would need to find a less expensive supplier, which he could probably do locally as some folks mentioned in another thread.

I bought one because I have mixed feelings about donating to blogs -- I don't ask people to pay me for MY hobby (not to mention the fact that I recently donated to another blog and the posting there has gone soft since the blogger has gotten involved with something else) -- so I feel compensated if I get something for my 'donation.' But that's me. And it may be other people, too.

Later,
bbeck

That's OK toots.
I can always send the image to my guy and totally print up a ripoff for myself.

bbeck, as usual, is on point. Like I said previously, only shirt I ever bought was Allah's "Six Days Bitch" - b/c that was just cool, and had nothing to do with a bunch of sniveling, salivating morons. I just bought the ace shirt b/c I need a new gym t-shirt, and that should work just fine.

FWIW I would have bought a bunch more had the shirt been more heckling or whatnot. For example, Paul Anka on the front, and "When I move I slice like a fuckin hammer" on the back would have kicked some serious ass. Yeah, it's a gag, but that shit's still funny IMO. Nevermind Bob. When the logo got toned down, and Ace wanted to go all PC with the quotes, I was kinda turned off. *shrug*

You asked.

I just ordered one. I think my initial reluctance to get one was twofold. You had only recently changed your logo and the new one hasn't grown on me yet. The other reason was the photo-shopping of the logo and text onto the shirt model made me subconsciously question whether the t-shirt was ever going to be a real product. Just a hunch but I think people may be reluctant to buy something like this that they only see in a mock-up state. And for the record I am very sorry to see you stop blogging.

Your explanation for Ace's "retirement" is confusing. What else is new.

How so? It's the same one that he posted as "Smitty" shortly after this first started. Basically it was a joke that the Lauren Bush post was so great he could never top it so he was going to retire. But then Instapundit linked to the post, asking if Ace was really retiring or if this was just a late April Fools gag, so then Ace felt he had to do something to live up to the expectations. Since he hadn't really planned anything out, the whole thing kind of fizzled.

But, anyway, who cares. I'm glad Ace is apparently done with this silliness and is back posting under his own name.

Let's never speak of this again.

I bought one because I have mixed feelings about donating to blogs -- I don't ask people to pay me for MY hobby

Do other people get anything out of your hobby? There are plenty hobbies that have money-making opportunities (collecting and reselling, etc.).

Pink would be good.

"Do other people get anything out of your hobby? There are plenty hobbies that have money-making opportunities (collecting and reselling, etc.)."

Yes, Bob, other people do; we do demos and perform for the public whenever we get the chance. We probably could make some money but we don't; it happens to be a non-profit organization. Besides, we'd have to get paid a LOT to even make a dent in the amount of money it costs to do what we do. We literally have thousands invested in our hobby.

Anyway, mox nix to the point I was making.

Later,
bbeck

PS: Thanks Fat Kid. Didn't know I was "usually on point," lol.

Later,
bbeck

When I found out the Dusty girl didn't come with the shirt, I cancelled my order.

Seriously though, I just don't wear t-shirts.

I think my initial reluctance to get one was twofold. You had only recently changed your logo and the new one hasn't grown on me yet.

I think this was something that kept a lot of people from ordering. In a perfect world, I would have had the new logo done months before the t-shirt sale.

But, alas, I started the new logo at the same time I was talking with RockNClothing... actually, a little bit later.

I do think people sort of haven't accepted it yet, like the "new" theme song on Monk. I liked it from the get-go, of course, because it's what I really always wanted.

The other reason was the photo-shopping of the logo and text onto the shirt model made me subconsciously question whether the t-shirt was ever going to be a real product.

That's a good point, and I worried about that too. But that's why I linked (way back) an actual photo of the shirts done for ThisFish.com -- to show the photoshop for that more complex design actually perfectly captured the look of the actual shirt.

Ah, well. If I ever do it again, I'll see about having the dumb screens (and shirts) made first, so everyone can see it's a real product.

Re: "Slice Like a Fucking Hammer"; toned down PC quotes

Well, first of all, the cost for doing lots of variant quotes would have been high and, as it turned out, ludicrously unprofitable.

"Slice like a hammer" is a great alternative quote for the site, but the official motto is the Mencken quote. So, first time out of the box, I went with the official quote.

But I can't see how a quote that speaks of "slicing throats" is "PC."

Sorry, it's the logo - I don't want to be mistaken for some f'n Goth.

Speaking as a supervillain reject, I have to say I was unimpressed with the design. I like the new logo, but need something that can be emblazoned boldly in the center of my chest. This current design may do for my minions when I get some.

Also, I do not like copperplate gothic, the typeface preferred by my arch-nemesis Benjamin Franklin.

Sorry, it's the logo - I don't want to be mistaken for some f'n Goth.

Goths do pirate themes? I didn't know that.

Ace Hoke,
I'm going to go out on a limb and throw out an appropriate quote from a certain box office kryptonite in Mallrats: the customer is an asshole.

Seriously, I think there's probably a bunch of niggling reasons that so-and-so didn't buy a shirt that all adds up to people being difficult to please. Since you asked, I'm not too into the t-shirt thing because I already have far too many t-shirts. Your fine product would have invariably joined them in the "things I barely ever wear yet nevertheless keep drawer" which would have been a travesty because if I were to own any Ace-O'-Spades swag I would certainly want to flaunt it. If there was, say, a big-assed Ace-O'-Spades coffee mug available then I'd buy one post-haste and keep it on my desk at all times to show off my geeky swag and intimidate my co-workers. But that's just me.

For example, Paul Anka on the front, and "When I move I slice like a fuckin hammer" on the back would have kicked some serious ass. Yeah, it's a gag, but that shit's still funny IMO. Nevermind Bob.

For the record, I said I was tired of the thing with putting periods in to indicate pauses, but I specifically said that when directly quoting Paul Anka it was OK. "When I move I slice like a fucking hammer" is quoting Paul Anka, it's not using the period thing, and it's a hilarious even if you don't know the context.

So anyone "minding" me can still appreciate that quote without feeling any conflict.

So, if we get Hoke to write a post by Ace saying he's going to commit suicide and get Instapundit to link it.......Hoke, how would you like to be the permanent owner of Ace Of Spades?

Nah, good to see you back on top Ace, I knew you weren't down and out, these fuckers had no faith in you, but I knew you'd be back. No crack pipe ever smoked could keep Ace down for long.

As for T-Shirts, I'm with bbeck, fat kid et al...The only shirt I got with a logo on was my Ars-Technica shirt, and thats only because I'm a geek. It wasn't for the logo, it was for the phrase written on it. Seems people prefer shirts that identify who they are rather than what web sites they visit.

Plus of course, most people would be embarassed to hell if people knew they came here, I have to delete my web history every night.

oh er /sarcasm or something, don't want to push Ace back over the edge into crankville...

Oh, and also, I think I need something bigger than an XXL at the moment because I...err...I'm tall...

I would buy a shirt, or just "be nice" but being unemployed makes it sort of hard.

Maybe, just maybe it isn't the shirts, maybe it is the class of people the blog appeals to... You know, bums, losers, layabouts, scum, fools, morons... the lot.

I'm just sayin'

When I found out the Dusty girl didn't come with the shirt, I cancelled my order.

Seriously though, I just don't wear t-shirts.

I ordered a shirt, but, yeah, I'm not sure how often I'm going to be able to wear it.

If I were in high school or college I could wear it all the time. But at this point in my life I work in an office where it would be "inappropriate", so that takes care of 5/7 of the time. That leaves the weekends, but we are fairly new to the neighborhood and so I'm not sure hanging out with a shirt that talks about slitting throats is the first impression I want to create. So I guess I could wear it when we're going out and aren't planning to do anything that requires more than t-shirt attire.

The point I'm (slowly) getting at is that for many adults t-shirts, no matter how cool, just don't really fit into their lifestyles anymore. Depending on the demographics of this blog, that may be the case for many/most of your readers.

When I found out the Dusty girl didn't come with the shirt, I cancelled my order.

Just for calrification, does Ace come with this shirt?

Just for calrification, does Ace come with this shirt?

No, just Smitty.

Speaking of the shirt, you announce a 24-hour blowout and almost simultaneously remove the "The Guys Get Shirts" link from the top of your page. Not good marketing.

Selling website swag is just like selling anything else: it's all in the marketing.

And when it comes to marketing, the hands-down, all-time no. 1 market for apparel is the kiddies. If you get the 16-24 crowd behind it, you'll move a lot of merchandise. I'm thinking that your regular readership is like me: getting a little long in the tooth to buy a lot of t-shirts. I'm guessing that T-shirt-buying rate drops precipitously after 30. Or 35. The kiddies ARE the market for such swag.

So, for starters, you need to get the shirts seen on sites that the younger crowd visits. I have no idea what they are, since as I said, I'm rapidly becoming an old fart.

Does anyone remember a movie with Alan Alda and Michelle Pfeiffer (Sweet Liberty, 1986)? Hollywood was making a picture based on Alda's revolutionary war book, but was bastardizing it left and right. Alda complained about historical inaccuracy, but the director smugly responded that accuracy isn't what the kiddies want. They want to see 3 things:

(1) Defy authority
(2) Destroy property
(3) Take people's clothes off.

This is pure genius. If I could open a business school, this is all I would teach.

The most popular t-shirts in the last few years have all been anti-Bush. Big surprise. Guess who's buying them.

And something about hating clowns. That seems to be very popular.

T-shirts are all about identity. They are about self-expression. You buy a t-shirt to announce to the world who you want to be seen as. So, to attract the common youthful t-shirt buyer, you need a design that identifies the wearer as someone who defies authority. The right design will identify the wearer as (a) opposed to some form of establishment and (b) belonging to a sub-culture. It's the best of both worlds -- defying and belonging, simultaneously.

If you can work in destroying property and sex, all the better.

The pirate thing is a great start. It naturally connotes destroying property. Now all you need is the other two.

Defy authority: tap into the whole rabid anti-Left thing. You do it on your site but not on the shirt. The shirt defies authority in a vague sense, but it doesn't clearly identify which authority is the target. All of us here know who that is, but it needs to be stated on the shirt. Be bold! Be counter-counter-revolutionary!

Taking clothes off: If you can find a way to fit nudity into the design, that's good, but using a Dusty-esque girl to model it would work just as well.

Otherwise, you could just go with the whole post-modern weirdness thing and see if you hit the lottery, like this one and this one.

Sorry, the other weird Japanese shirt I meant to link to was this one.

Damn links!! Here, try this.

What was the problem? Just too pricey?

As it happens I'm broke, so anything's too pricey. (I think I will throw some change in the PayPal, however).

But the other reason? Since you asked? Not to be fussy, but:

I look terrible in charcoal gray.

It's the same reason I couldn't buy an ASV shirt even though I wanted to: Why green? I can't wear green.

White, black, navy, tan . . . I can do all the neutrals, honest. But charcoal gray, it looks like I bought a black t-shirt and washed it to death and am now wearing something I bought decades ago, something I'd normally only wear to clean house.

Go on and flame me. I know I'm being a fussy little bitch.

But you asked.

(Oh, but no problems with the logo. I like the new one just fine.)

Why would I flame you over so mild a criticism? I'm not even sure it is a criticism. "I don't look good in spats" isn't a criticism, either.

Thanks for the input, guys!

I look great in spats!

I'm waiting for the Ace of Spades shorty wetsuit, so I can windsurf in it with my working-class beer drinking buddies while hunting for deer on the great plains.

I would have purchased but the shirt looked too cheesy. Color was not good, logo looked dumb in the corner. A navy blue T with large white block letters in a campy font across the front that just said ACE, with the quote on the back would have been cool. Slicing like a fucking hammer would have been even better. In that real soft cotton, not the starchy stiff kind. I was hoping for something with a little more of Ace in it. Something cooler. Not this generic looking thing with a websitey- looking logo.

The old logo was better.

People are attracted to this site due to the quality of the writing. A t-shirt that simply had a quality quote or graphic from the archives would be much more appealing than the current t-shirt.

Also, consider that it's nice to have a "stand alone" product, that may mean something to the wearer but doesn't require being a regular visitor to the site for others to understand it. Mencken quotes and death cards are good, but they don't really summarize the site very well.

By means of reference, the only time I've purchased a similar item was from Achewood's store. It consisted of a simple graphic and some text, and didn't have any obvious 'branding' at work. Were it simply the name "Achewood" + Omstead's slogan I wouldn't have purchased it.

Hopefully this helps in the future. Best of luck your next go-around.

I like Ace, but I don't need a t-shirt.

If the shirt had something funny on it, I might reconsider.

a simple graphic and some text

See what I mean? I don't know who this Achewood character is, but the people clearly want shirts that say things like "It is forbidden to urinate!"

These are marketing pearls, man. Pearls.

Here's my input (as a designer, like that matters): Color, not good. All caps copperplate straight underneath, not good. Death card too large. Smaller logo with cleaner, sans serif text arced over top of smaller logo. Different color shirt. Otherwise, it was perfect.

another idea is you could print the logo as a transfer and send it "free" to anyone who donates over $10 ... and then everyone could make their own shirt ... or nightshirt ... or cap .... or pillowcase .... or whatever

giving away a "free" gift -- actually "selling a $1 transfer for $10 -- there'd be a pretty big profit margin. More than you're making on the t-shirts I bet.

and you could have a contest for most innovative use

Ace,

I bought a shirt as they were but the old logo was better. I needed a new gym shirt, and this one is almost as cool as the"Real men go straight" NHRA shirt that another dude wears all the time.

I love that shirt, maybe you could rip off the logo.

I bought one, but this was because I wanted to.

Simply put, the mockup looks like someone Photoshopped in about 45 seconds of work. A pic of the actual shirt, even lying on a table, would have been better. This just looked junky. The color was 'eh', but workable.

Basically, I think that the sample image turned off some potential customers.

For me, partly cash flow limitations, partly I don't wear a lot of T-shirts. Now a nice sky blue golf shirt with an embroidered death card on the breast pocket -- that would have been classy!

"Dimmeeee, why did you do this to me? Please Dimmy, I'm afraaaaaid!"

You know what would kick ass on the back of the t-shirt:

Why? Because Cedarford sucks.

New logo is great, and I like the color. Which is why I bought one. Would have preferred a big graphic--subtlety is not a characteristic valued by this crowd. But no goofy quotes! I would feel extremely lame walking around with a kick-ass menacing cryptic graphic and then something goofy like "The Guys get Shirts!" on the back. Even the Mencken is a liitle over the top. Why have a bunch of words? Let the chicks ask me what it means, or let them assume I'm in some poker-playing secret society.

Agreed: that sales would have gone up had Classic Dusty modeled the shirt.

I look forward to actually seeing one of you wearing these shirts around town (NorCal) and going up to you and screaming "Don't make a f'ing maniac outta me!"

I was disappointed that they didn't have the Jeff Gannon-head one... I really wanted that one.

I bought one, but wouldn't have bought more no matter what. Only reason is, of course, because I'm dirt poor white trash. I like the way it turned out, though, it's just hard to sell for a website. I probably wouldn't have gotten one for anybody's site but Ace's, I didn't even buy any off Allah and I thought they were cool.

IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY? I DON'T GET IT.

Who's Paul Anka?

Sorry, that was for someone in particular - they'll understand.

Once again, using Ace's comments as my own personal message board. Thanks for the bandwidth.

Turkey.

:P

WHERE'S MY T-SHIRT YOU F*CKING NAZI'S! I ORDERED IT YESTERDAY AND IT HASN"T BEEN HAND-DELIVERED BY THE EGYPTIAN SLAVE LIKE. YOU. PROMISED. YOU FACIST PIGS!!! AAAAAAAAARRGHTH!

fat kid,

Prescription change?

:)

$15? $15 freakin dollars. Sorry, but someone has to say this. I worked hours with Ace to come up with a logo. His choice, design, what have you. Good or bad logo, OR shirt design it's fucking irrelevant to me and I have no personal feelings in this at all in that regard. Really.

But I recently watched Jeff at PW do a bleg for a crashing hard drive to the tune of what? Couple grand, or more, maybe? Don't know, don't care. His biz.

So, Ace comes along, a guy who already works his nuts off to entertain you, give you some yuks, a place to play. Sweats fucking bullets to try and give his readers something to take away from a little fund raising, pours himself into it to please people even more, for what? His share is surely less than the average donation of a bleg - and a bunch of ass wipes wanna critique the design, or say they don't wear 'em to justify not buying a fucking $15 shirt?

They're right, Ace - it was the design. Next time do a large image on the back, Ace of Spades HQ across the top - and then, "the place where the cheapest, most ungrateful fuckwads on the Internet read for free."

Better yet, wait six months and tell 'em your hard drive's crashing and just pocket the cash. Fuck 'em, they deserve it.

You should stop the yuks and cursing, Ace. Put all your time into straight news and be another Big main strean news blog so you can make some bucks off the ads. You have a large audience getting pretty much they want without being willing to give dick back - let 'em go back to looking at pop-ups on the free porn sites and jerking off. They don't deserve your efforts here.

Hey BrewFan, you do realize my post was a joke, and was intended to be more inline (sentiment-wise) with Dan's little tirade above... :)

Just so we're all on the same page (and b/c I forgot my *sarcasm* tag)

::Bad Pun Warning::

Dan, this is no time for restraint. Tell us how you riehlly feel!

:)

fat kid,

We're on the same page :)

[Holding chair at arm's length and cracking whip]

Back in the cage, Dan!

BACK! BACK!

In all honesty, as a 37 year old man a t-shirt with a death card on it isn't too appealing. If I was 25, I probably would buy one.

Ace of Spades HQ is my favorite blog and I would have loved to buy a shirt, but it's too reminiscient of a Metallica concert tee for people over the age of 30 to want to buy.

John: Back in the cage, Dan!
BACK! BACK!

Fuck that. I'm already in a straight jacket eight hours a day! What d'ya want from me?? ; )

Dear Ace:
The new logo is great
I love charcoal grey
I love pirates and
I love you

Dont go changin'

It's your blog and your shirt done your way
and that's why i ordered it

As the nuns used to say in school:
fuck em if they can't take a joke

I bought a shirt before it was life-or-death....but the shirt could have been cooler. "The guys get shirts" woulda been cooler for a slogan. "When I move, I slice like a f'in hammer" woulda been cooler (shirts, as public display items, should be PG-13 at worst). Even "Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!" The charcoal gray was fine. Front logo was fine. Pocket-T would have been nice (I'd have gone an extra buck or so). Large logo on back would have been fun.

But the real kicker is the immediate gratification part. If you ain't gonna deliver until orders go through, you'd better be delivering equipment for a boys' band....and have matriculated from Gary, Indiana.

I do think the faux-NPR thing could have been a hit, also -- donate $1 because it feels good. With $5, get a public "thank you" that mentions an unfortunate tendency or physical characteristic. With $10, get a haiku. With $20, get a shirt. With $50, get a wet kiss from a stray dog in the back of the theater....

Anyway, that's why you should never introduce a product without first doing focus groups. "'Which is precisely the sort of thing we need to know,' insisted the girl, `Do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?'"

Hell, I bought one just cause I wanted one. I didn't think they were too pricey.

not being sarcastic - but the t is conservative! boring! no offense, really. Needs to have something different as slogan or the quote slashed across the t or anything to make it NOT look like the typical promo t. Needs to make people ask, huh, ace? or it needs to be exclusive like only those who visit this site will know what it means and if they ever saw another person wearing it it would be like a secret club or something!

we do these and for god's sake I am in financial services, the most mind-numbing industry. our walking dead clients love the logo to the side stuff !

and I agree with comment above - my experience has been people will give you a bucket load of money if they get something for "free" even if the "free" item is worth less than $10! works for us.... I just raised squillions on the basis of a $10 giveaway ! so maybe ace, instead of promising cool names based on donations (although I was toying with the idea of donating $101 just so I could be Mrs Ace before you pulled your retire prank) you could give a t away if someone donates $100+. maybe the t then has ace-sponsor (lots of images of money all over the t?) on it.

I bought one and my only bitch is that it hasn't arrived yet.

I really don't get the "I'm too old for T-shirts" bit. What the fuck, y'all wear suits to mow the lawn in? Who doesn't wear a t-shirt every now and then?

I also don't get the embarrassment over being "too old" to wear something with a skull logo. Fuck all that. You're only as old as you feel. I'm about to turn 34, and I'll proudly sport the Ace of Spades logo. In fact, I can't wait to break it out at my next Hold'em game.

Where is it written that upon turning 30 you have to become a tight-ass? I'm not recommending that middle-aged men act like 18 year olds, but retaining just a bit of that youthful "fuck you" attitude seems a healthy thing to me.

Isn't that why we all come here anyway?

VICTORY!

The guy gets a shirt! (And if the b*st*rds don't ship it, I may get cranky...)

And the Ace-retires/Hoke-takes-over/Ace-returns gag is almost over.

Just give me a pic of a babe-modelling-the-shirt at the top in the banner, and we'll call it square.

OK, maybe Allah doing the guest-Photoshopper thing, too...

I like the logo. I like the color I ordered (black). I went with the quote-less version because I wanted the shirt to be more enigmatic. I'll have to see the shirt in the cotton to be sure, but if I had more dough to spend, I'd order several more.

I wear t-shirts every day, though generally under a button-down collared shirt, and I'd prefer that those t-shirts be Death Card black Ts, just in case I ever find myself in a street fight, for the psychological effect of tearing off my benign camouflage and reveal the grinning skull on my chest to my opponent, who will undoubtedly be dribbling down his leg at the sight.

It comes down to the question of do I buy another T-shirts, or, you know, food this week.

tell us the truth, cap'n ace
do you want us to get the shirts?
or would you rather have the gold dubloons?

if you dont go ahead w/ the shirts
let us know
i'll just put the money in the tip jar

I bought a black T and think that will look good with the logo, though I'd prefer white to charcoal. It'd be easier to judge if you could see the real shirts and not photoshopped versions of what it may look like. The only trepidation I feel is if the site did shut down, and I'd have bought a shirt (again) for a website that went belly-up. Hoping that was just a hoax.

I like the site. I like the shirt. I tried to buy one. However, my credit card still has a US billing address, while I am temporarily (for three years now...) living in Germany. They won't sell one to me.

The shirt is ridiculous. The emblem is way too big. And the skull is a little fey, too Tommy Hilfiger.