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December 02, 2004

Japan Wants Equal Veto Rights In Reformed Security Council

Not that it matters; it's an irrelevant institution on its way out.

But I gave this some thought a while ago. Assume a larger security council; you wouldn't want everyone to have a veto power. Too many agendas would mean the UNSC does even less than it does now, with frequent vetoes.

But why does the power of veto need to be unilateral? And why does that power have to be equal among all members?

The US, UK, Japan, and perhaps some other enlightened nations could be given veto powers of two. Meaning that they did have the right to veto, but only when seconded in that veto by any other member of the security council.

In other words, you have a veto, but not an unqualified veto-- you always need to persuade someone else to join your veto for it to actually become a veto.

Now, I know that really the US should have a unilateral veto power, but let's face it, that will never happen. They're jealous of our real-world power as it is and it is hateful to them to recognize that power in the UN. Besides, we can always get either Britain or Japan to join on one of our vetoes.

Lesser states could be given veto powers of three, meaning their vetoes would have to be seconded by two other council members to become a veto. I'm thinking Russia, China, Germany, Austraila (yeah, they deserve to be in the first tier, but no one will go for that) and (uggggh) France.

Even lesser states would have veto powers of four.

You could expand the UNSC by quite a bit-- up to twenty members -- and you wouldn't have to fear that some piddling little country could easily veto an action. And yet that country could possibly veto a resolution, so long as it could find three fellow SC members willing to second its veto.

Meanwhile, most of the power would remain where it should be -- ~~outside the UN entirely~~ with the more powerful countries on the UNSC.

Heck, you could even make a case that the need to persuade another country to support your veto would improve international dialogue at the UN. I mean, I'm not going to make that stupid-shit case, but you're welcome to do so if you like.

Just an idea.

posted by Ace at 04:30 AM

Comments

Funny that you should mention Australia 'cause there was talk today, at an Australian blog I frequent, about UN Security Council reform as well. This is part of what I said there:

"I think regional groupings might be one way for Australian values and perspectives to obtain more prominence. Case in point is the South Pacific Forum: a collection of democracies with a proven record of ejecting countries who fail to meet the minimum standards of a democracy (e.g. Fiji). Should this group go on to form some sort of 'South Pacific Union' (loosely 1980s EU style) representing something like 30 per cent of the earth's surface (maybe more), I think there would definitely be a case for a significant voice for the grouping at the UN.

Regional representation will have winners and losers though. I'm not particularly hopeful we will see it as an option for reform."

Posted by: Stan on December 2, 2004 05:42 AM

Step one here has to be giving Frawnce's spot to the EU. Then we can talk.

Posted by: on December 2, 2004 05:48 AM

I think you mean to phrase it -- veto powers of 1/2, 1/3, etc., but it's a good point. I think if the veto is expanded, Japan should probably get one. Pretty hard to deny India, too. But France should not have a solo veto. I'd love to see Australia have one.

And woo hoo! The Ace of Spades logo is back! I'm psyched! If I had a cowbell . . .

Posted by: DWC on December 2, 2004 07:49 AM

Just a lousy idea. :)

Why even talk about tinkering with the UN - it will always be an enemy of the United States. Better to let it die by sinking into the swamp of its own corruption.

Posted by: max on December 2, 2004 08:32 AM

Screw Vaclev Havel. Ace for U.N. Secretary General.

Posted by: Gleeful Extremist on December 2, 2004 09:53 AM

Excellent idea, Gleeful. Ace as Sec.Gen. is the only way I will support keeping the UN around.

Posted by: Sobek on December 2, 2004 12:09 PM

The 2 or even 3 vote Veto is a good idea, but the USA would be it's biggest opponent, I predict, since we are the largest casters of single- nation UN Security Council Vetos these days - mostly on behalf of stopping UN actions aimed at Israel. Getting the UK, France, Japan if added, to back our Vetos of actions aimed at stopping Israel from colonizing further lands - is tough given the current General Assembly votes against Israel's actions are every nation but the USA. Those recent 189-2 votes on Resolutions involving Israel mean that the US can't even bring it's former territories Micronesia and the Marshall Islands along on certain votes.

India? I personally oppose India's admission and Brazils, because despite their large populations and being Democracies, they contribute less to the UN than they take out in goods and services. An African or Aran Security Council Vote? Screw those parasites and dysfunctional regions! Not so Japan, the UN's 2nd largest contributor...it deserves a spot.

It will be interesting to see what the US does if the UN admits a major Charter Revision is needed for survival and most nations are on board for rules that enforce accountability and a change that ends the single vote Veto of any nation in the " Big 5 ". It would certainly send the Zionists scrambling to see if they can cultivate and support the politicians of another nation to vote Israel's way...

Posted by: Cedarford on December 2, 2004 12:22 PM

But if everyone had a veto, nothing would get done. Next to getting rid of the UN, it's about the best shot we've got to get it out of our hair.

Posted by: KurtP on December 3, 2004 08:31 PM


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But why does the power of veto need to be unilateral? And why does that power have to be equal among all members? The US, UK, Japan, and perhaps some other enlightened nations could be given veto powers of two. Meaning that they did have the right to veto, but only when seconded in that veto by any other member of the security council. In other words, you have a veto, but not an unqualified veto-- you always need to persuade someone else to join your veto for it to actually become a veto. Now, I know that really the US should have a unilateral veto power, but let's face it, that will never happen. They're jealous of our real-world power as it is and it is hateful to them to recognize that power in the UN. Besides, we can always get either Britain or Japan to join on one of our vetoes. Lesser states could be given veto powers of three, meaning their vetoes would have to be seconded by two other council members to become a veto. I'm thinking Russia, China, Germany, Austraila (yeah, they deserve to be in the first tier, but no one will go for that) and (uggggh) France. Even lesser states would have veto powers of four. You could expand the UNSC by quite a bit-- up to twenty members -- and you wouldn't have to fear that some piddling little country could easily veto an action. And yet that country could possibly veto a resolution, so long as it could find three fellow SC members willing to second its veto. Meanwhile, most of the power would remain where it should be -- ~~outside the UN entirely~~ with the more powerful countries on the UNSC. Heck, you could even make a case that the need to persuade another country to support your veto would improve international dialogue at the UN. I mean, I'm not going to make that stupid-shit case, but you're welcome to do so if you like. Just an idea. posted by Ace at 04:30 AM Comments Funny that you should mention Australia 'cause there was talk today, at an Australian blog I frequent, about UN Security Council reform as well. This is part of what I said there: "I think regional groupings might be one way for Australian values and perspectives to obtain more prominence. Case in point is the South Pacific Forum: a collection of democracies with a proven record of ejecting countries who fail to meet the minimum standards of a democracy (e.g. Fiji). Should this group go on to form some sort of 'South Pacific Union' (loosely 1980s EU style) representing something like 30 per cent of the earth's surface (maybe more), I think there would definitely be a case for a significant voice for the grouping at the UN. Regional representation will have winners and losers though. I'm not particularly hopeful we will see it as an option for reform." Posted by: Stan on December 2, 2004 05:42 AM Step one here has to be giving Frawnce's spot to the EU. Then we can talk. Posted by: on December 2, 2004 05:48 AM I think you mean to phrase it -- veto powers of 1/2, 1/3, etc., but it's a good point. I think if the veto is expanded, Japan should probably get one. Pretty hard to deny India, too. But France should not have a solo veto. I'd love to see Australia have one. And woo hoo! The Ace of Spades logo is back! I'm psyched! If I had a cowbell . . . Posted by: DWC on December 2, 2004 07:49 AM Just a lousy idea. :) Why even talk about tinkering with the UN - it will always be an enemy of the United States. Better to let it die by sinking into the swamp of its own corruption. Posted by: max on December 2, 2004 08:32 AM Screw Vaclev Havel. Ace for U.N. Secretary General. Posted by: Gleeful Extremist on December 2, 2004 09:53 AM Excellent idea, Gleeful. Ace as Sec.Gen. is the only way I will support keeping the UN around. Posted by: Sobek on December 2, 2004 12:09 PM The 2 or even 3 vote Veto is a good idea, but the USA would be it's biggest opponent, I predict, since we are the largest casters of single- nation UN Security Council Vetos these days - mostly on behalf of stopping UN actions aimed at Israel. Getting the UK, France, Japan if added, to back our Vetos of actions aimed at stopping Israel from colonizing further lands - is tough given the current General Assembly votes against Israel's actions are every nation but the USA. Those recent 189-2 votes on Resolutions involving Israel mean that the US can't even bring it's former territories Micronesia and the Marshall Islands along on certain votes. India? I personally oppose India's admission and Brazils, because despite their large populations and being Democracies, they contribute less to the UN than they take out in goods and services. An African or Aran Security Council Vote? Screw those parasites and dysfunctional regions! Not so Japan, the UN's 2nd largest contributor...it deserves a spot. It will be interesting to see what the US does if the UN admits a major Charter Revision is needed for survival and most nations are on board for rules that enforce accountability and a change that ends the single vote Veto of any nation in the " Big 5 ". It would certainly send the Zionists scrambling to see if they can cultivate and support the politicians of another nation to vote Israel's way... Posted by: Cedarford on December 2, 2004 12:22 PM But if everyone had a veto, nothing would get done. Next to getting rid of the UN, it's about the best shot we've got to get it out of our hair. Posted by: KurtP on December 3, 2004 08:31 PM Post a comment Name: Email Address: URL: Comments: Remember info?	Now Available! 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