No Ace-- I'm already doing it myself. Should be up in about five minutes, if you wanna wait.

Cheers,
Dave

Ace--

Damn, you beat me by THISMUCH.

Anyways, I feel that we agree.

http://garfieldridge.blogspot.com/2004/09/dan-clinton-rather-aka-cbs-news-has.html

Where are the scientists, man? This has Occam's Razor written all over it.

Cheers,
Dave

I once had a bitch of a boss who tried the exact same thing Rather is trying to pull. Her underlings basically mutinied and started trying to force her out. She put on the face that Rather did--and her quaking was telltale underneath while she was doing it, just as with Rather--tried to pass off the bullshit like Rather is doing and thought she would get away with it.

We toppled her anyway, and that's who Rather reminds me of in this instance. Maybe he can tough it out, but the arrogance of his presentation should and could be his downfall.

I think this was the first time I ever wondered if a newscaster was going to throw up on the air.

So what happens now? Will this story just run out of oxygen as people tire of it and something new dominates the news cycle?

God, I hope not. I hope we gnaw on this bone till it splinters and we suck all the marrow out of Rather.

Well, there are a few questions that will *have* to be answered from here out, because I think the "peer pressure" from other, competing networks will force CBS's hand.

-- Who gave them the documents?
-- Can these originals be independently reviewed by outside experts?
-- What will the White House say? Will it be different than what was (or in this case, wasn't) said before? Why?
-- Okay, that's probably all that's left.

Hey, look at it this way: it keeps Kerry from being Kerry. He can't attack Bush's TANG record, or at least he can't do it effectively (i.e., in a feeble attempt to sway "swing" voters, that most noxious of beasts) until this all gets cleared up.

The problem is, Rather didn't clear up jack shit tonight. So, it's definitely going into the Sunday morning shows, which mean it lives until Monday, at least.

Who knows? By next Thursday, Andrew Sullivan might even notice the story.

Cheers,
Dave
Garfield Ridge

Ace:

My man, you have hit the nail on the f'en head. Me thinks there's a considerable amount of angst in the Rather household this evening, thanks in very large part to your efforts as a "partisan political operative," and that of your kindred spirits across Blogdom.

Oh Lordy this is good. People pay money to watch this sort of stuff go down!

Good summary of the situation Ace. There is no way Rather himself still believes it is legit. Viacom shareholders need to regain control of their company. The managers at Viacom/CBS are breaching their fiduciary duty by letting this charade continue.

"And yet he's "the media" -- the one we're supposed to trust."

Way ahead of you Ace.
Don't trust 'em even a li'l bit.

Rather is in a tenuous position at best. Ceratinly we will not let this die.
The cover up will raise eyebrows across the other media.
Perhaps they'll try to scuttle it but someone wants the Pulitzer for f'n Rather up.

I'm waiting for Rather to hold a seance on a live broadcast, summoning the ghost of Col. Killian to testify. Everything is going great until the ghost is revealed as an imposter from VVAW who never served in the military.

The AP has found a document expert that's willing to swear under oath that the TANG memos are forgeries.

And they started to fisk Rather's rebuttal less than an hour after it aired.

Scroll down to the bottom of the news item. Someone better get a screenshot of it as well.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040911/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_guard_questions&cid=544&ncid=716

James

Maybe Dan and Geraldo will get together in a old basement and tunnel down to find additional documents. Ha hahahahahahahahaha!

Game Over

The most pathetic thing about it was that Rather tried to put the onus on Bush and Co. to end the controversy when he asked, "Why haven't they answered the questions these documents raise?"

So, if I whip out an "authentic document" showing that Dan Rather testified under oath that he loves raping 4 year old boys, and ask, "Mr. Rather, when are you going to stop your homosexual pedophilia?", can I badger him about "not answering the questions raised" when he denounces it as a fake?

I'm just askin' is all.

KEEP IT ALIVE.

That's what we have to do. Don't let them bury it. CBS used forged military documents- likely given to them from a political campaign- to advance that canpaign's agenda. They did not authenticate the docs even though they had doubts about them. And now they are lying even more to cover up what they did.

THIS CANNOT STAND, and it cannot be swept under the rug. We have to keep it alive.

Bush should have had Clinton indicted for a bunch of shit (like selling nuclear secrets to China for campaign contributions), he should have had Sandy Berger locked up tight by now, and he should have the military investigating this case too, since forging military docs is a dire crime.

If Bush is a totalitarian, he is the laziest sumbitch totalitarian I ever saw.

The way that Clinton used the IRS to harass people, you'd think that at least Bush could use the LAW to prosecute actual criminal behavior.

This will not stand.

You got that right, Walter.

The source needs to be outed. I'd like to know how someone who was NOT the man's wife, NOT the man's son, had access to so-called "personal papers."

As for the innumerable indications of forgery--at this point I'm reduced to hoping a rival network smells blood and goes all great white on Dan's ass.

They should. It'd be ratings gold.

Has anyone else mentioned the fact that the U.S. State Department only recently started using Times New Roman, having used Courier for the past few decades?

from a Feb story on Slate

Not sure if it is as significant as it seems, but sure makes you think.

Good analysis. I have no idea WTF Rather's half-hearted "defense" was supposed to be. I am stunned that he has chosen to fart out such an arrogant, pathetic smokescreen. I really, really hate having my intelligence insulted.

This is THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/NotedNow/Noted_Now.html

---------------------------------

HODGES SAID HE WAS MISLED BY CBS: Retired Maj. General Hodges, Killian's supervisor at the Grd, tells ABC News that he feels CBS misled him about the documents they uncovered. According to Hodges, CBS told him the documents were "handwritten" and after CBS read him excerpts he said, "well if he wrote them that's what he felt."

Hodges also said he did not see the documents in the 70's and he cannot authenticate the documents or the contents. His personal belief is that the documents have been "computer generated" and are a "fraud".

---------------------------------

This guy was supposed to be Dan's star witness. This guy was supposed to be the ultimate confirmation. They LIED to him. They never even showed him the documents. They misquoted him. And he THINKS THE MEMOS ARE FAKE!!!!!!!!

Good post, Ace. But regarding your point #4, apparently the superscript "th" example that Rather showed tonight was indeed a special character, not simply the result of turning the rollers back one notch. NRO's Kerry Spot gives this link to the document that Rather showed on the screen. It's on page 3, 2nd line. Look for "111th", which definitely has an interesting "th" character. But it's still obviously not the result of MSWord 2000 either:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/9-Miscellaneous.pdf

I've also printed out the images at LGF to show my CBS watching mother-in-law. I'm afraid she believes every word from Dan's mouth. I want to show the evidence to all the non-internet types I know. I can just hold the two pages together up to a light, and show how obviously they overlap. This is the most damning evidence, because it's way beyond coincidence to even the most untrained eye. This is the most interesting election season I've ever seen!

Ace,

I concur with Rather the Politico. See:
http://woodyswoundup.blogspot.com/2004/09/rather-will-survive.html

Cheers! -Woody

Could this document have been typed with the same typewriter in 1972?

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc2.gif

It is Bush's request for a transfer.

it has proportional type. Looks like it is in Times Roman (New? I don't know) and the letters are kerned.

Also it has the same closed 4.

Why couldn't Killian have used this typewriter to make those docs?

My feedback to CBS, FWIW. We need to hammer on these bastards ... politely though.

Dear Sir or Madame:

Dan Rather's defense tonight of the purported TANG documents released by 60 Minutes Wed. night was inadequate.

Please:

(1) make the original documents available to independent experts for authentication
(2) identify the individuals who authenticated the documents for CBS News, and describe their qualifications
(3) describe in detail the vetting process employed to confirm the authenticity of the documents for CBS News
(4) identify the original source of the documents
(5) describe in detail the chain of custody for these documents, from original source to CBS

These documents, currently unverified in the opinion of many, impugn the reputation of a sitting wartime president.

Instead of pathetically insisting the White House respond to your implied and unsubstantiated allegations, will you now honor yourselves by either proving their merit, or withdrawing them and issuing a formal retraction?

Regards.

Quasi--

that's in courier, which isn't proportional, and I don't see any examples of the letters being kerned. it looks like that was written on a regular typewriter.

Funny he signed it "George", and it was going to his commanding officer. I would expect a more formal signature.

quasi:

What makes you think that is proportional type? It sure looks fixed width to me. Look at the width of the base of the small "i". A proportionally spaced font has a much narrower "i". And to determine that it is "Times Roman" from this grainy scan seems unlikely to me.

quasi ...it's not kerned or proportional. It's monospaced. It's not Times New Roman. It's plain ol' Courier (it's not even Prestige). Better leave the font stuff to the typologists ol' boy.

The only interesting point of congruence (given your link is a genuine document) is that the PO Box number "34567" vindicates the one in the forged memo, which some in the b'sphere have questioned. THAT I think is an interesting observation.

Ahh, I see Quasi is cut-and-pasting that exact same question around in places like this:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_signatures.html

Which I regard as borderline Akefa behavior.

Wow, you guys - all of you - are so damn smart. Thanks for watching over this obvious smear attempt. What a bunch of inept losers the Kerry campaign has to fight with!

Which, of course, begs the question - this candidate keeps shooting himself in the foot. SOMEONE has to be advising him...

IF (when) the Repubs win this year, a Dimmycrat can run virtually unnoposed in '08...am i nuts? Do I need more tinfoil for my headwear?

No, I don't. Sometimes conspiracy theories actually pan out. Hell, someone HAS to be orchestrating this total destructive BURN - OUT. No one could possibly be that stupid by themselves.

Don't ya think?

Here is why Rather had to keep it alive. The Kerry campaign was depending on him:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2004/09/now-we-know-why.html

Ace:

You seem to like obscure pop-culture refererences... so I figured you'd appreciate this observation:

"The story is true. The story is true," Rather said. "The questions raised in the story are serious and legitimate questions."

Now, I don't know why, but for some reason that quote from Rather reminded me of good old toasty T-bird from The Crow:

"I know you. I know you, I knew I knew you .. I knew I knew you. [Almost sobbing] But you ain't you ... you can't be you. We put you through the window. There ain't no comin' back. This is the really real world, there ain't no comin' back."

Give 'em hell Ace!

Regarding, " apparently the superscript "th" example that Rather showed tonight was indeed a special character, not simply the result of turning the rollers back one notch. NRO's Kerry Spot gives this link to the document that Rather showed on the screen. It's on page 3, 2nd line. Look for "111th", which definitely has an interesting "th" character. But it's still obviously not the result of MSWord 2000 either:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/9-Miscellaneous.pdf..."

I looked at it carefully. Note the same "111th" on line five. The apparent "superscript" on line 2 looks like an artifact of the xerox process, similar to deformation of letters at many other places in the document copies.

A qualified document expert could probably clear up the differences--and causes--between the apparent (tightly squished together and otherwise deformed!) letters Rather represented as "superscripts" in line 2 and the clear non-superscript "111th" notation in line 5 that is consistent with all the other instances of "th" added to numeral designations of units found elsewhere in the copies.

The real deal here is that Dan Blather got someone to find such a questionable support for his false arguments.

Please forgive my inexperience at this ,but I feel the need to get involved in the Rather travesty.I went to CBSNews.com and told them exactly what I thought of their partisan lying fraud and also what I thought of them for supporting him.Trouble is I am probably not as good at it as the many bloggers on this and many other sites,so maybe you guys could join me in sending CBSNews.com your regards,also please pass this on to as many sites as possible and ask them to do the same

Guys,

From a friend who works on CBS Eveing News with The Rather man, has always told me that he's a Technophobe. He is so Technologically challenged when it comes to things computerized. The CBS news group had a hard time coming up with solutions for the Elections because Dan didn't want to use computerized Graphic Enhancements like those we see every day by Weather Guys. He doesn't understand the use, the technology nor the vocabulary. They are stuck having to use ways that cater to Dan's lack of knowledge. So, in summary...I say... Have Dan Rather sit Face to Face with a Document Expert, hit Dan with the technical questions - He'll fold like a Cheap Suit, as this last Press Conference.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?" Should now be reffered to as:
"Where's the Authenticity Danny?"

Gents (and ladies):

Concentrate on three evidential words:

CHAIN
OF
CUSTODY

CBS must show that the documents they display were known to be in existence from creation through decades of cold storage to discovery (by whom?) to transfer (via whom?) to CBS.

Since the documents are NOT classified, no laws have been broken by any purported custodians or couriers.

Hence, there is no legal justification for protection through anonymeity.

The only purpose served by keeping secret the names of the sequential custodians, is to allow convenient assumptions (that the chain is legitimate) to go unquestioned -- when in truth, the chain must be PROVEN, not assumed.

The photocopies just 'fell from the sky', Rather is asserting. He hasn't proved anything else, and his lame attempts to LOOK like he has, he just strengthens the impression that the documents HAVE no credible origin.

Jim O
aerospace sleuth
USAF officer, 1964-1978

I think it's clear what is going on. Rather and the news team at CBS are less interested in what is supposed to be journalistic integrity than they are more

On this 3rd anniversary of the 911 attacks and the recent radical muslim attacks in Russian and the bombing of the Australin Embassy in Jakarta Indonesia I'm somewhat encouraged by a comprehensive American proposal to deal with this global problem. This US administration has a what I think is a plan for defeating terrorism. Its brillant but will require the help of every developed nation in the world. Read this article by Thomas Barrett a Department of Defense advisor and author of The Pentagon's New Map. This is just an overview and doesn't tell the entire plan in detail. I heard a 3 hr lecture by him on Cspan and was very impressed. Enjoy and pass on Francis
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/ThePentagonsNewMap.htm

I don't know much about Bush's National Guard service, but common sense tells me that if he wanted to stay out of harm's way -- as his enemies charge -- he would have gone for a quasi-administrative job, supply officer perhaps. Instead he volunteered for pilot training, and a fighter pilot at that. That's about the most dangerous field around. Even in training those guys get killed.

Just a different scenario on all this. What if CBS got hand written copies of these "CYA" memos, that they showed to their hand writing expert, who said they were Killian's. Then to make it easier for their viewers, they transcribe these "authentic" hand written notes on a PC and then attempt to pass that off as the originals. They're in a box in not wanting to admit they did the transferring to a typed format but they believe they have the proof in the hand written originals. Please tell me why this is ridiculous. I found Ace's response the best yet to Rather's reaction to all this.

In a message dated 9/27/2004 1:26:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, INTA 197 writes:
Last sunday Chris Wallace plays two tapes for DEM. SEN. JOE BIDEN claiming Kerry had flip flopped.In the first tape Kerry states anybody who thinks Saddam should not be removed from power is unfit to be president,the second tape shows Kerry saying the war was a mistake.With perfect hindsight Biden then argues that the reason it was a mistake is the aftermath of the war.Mr. Wallace played the wrong set of tapes,he should have played the one in which Kerry states anybody who thinks Saddam should not be removed from power is unfit to be president,and then played the tape from the David Letterman show where Letterman asks Kerry if you were president would we be in Iraq,Kerry answers "NO".This flip flop is irrefuteable. Kerry has admitted he is unfit to be president.


Ty Gonsalves

Jackson Heights, NY 11370