Gun Thread: Pre-Christmas Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Christmas, the holiday best loved for receiving gifts, is nearly here! Have you dropped lots of hints for what you want under the tree? A new range bag perhaps? That nice brass cleaning rod with ball bearings you've had your eye on? A Nightforce Competition scope? 10,000 rounds of 175gr Federal Gold Medal Match ammo? A fully automatic H&K MP5? Whatever is on your wish list, I hope you have been a good boy or girl and find Santa has left it for you on Christmas morning!

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas!

With that, let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

Welcome!
Last week, at the suggestion of our pal Oddbob we invited lurkers to creep out of the shadows and say hello, and what a great job they did! We saw a lot of new nics in the comments and I want to welcome and thank all of the new contributors! Hope you find the time to visit again this week and tell us about your shooting, or even your lack thereof if you didn't manage to get to the range. Let us know what is on your mind, and if there is a particular topic you would like to see covered in a future thread just speak up and we'll do our best to address it.

You were lied to. There will be math.

So this week I have an assignment for you. A homework problem to study over Christmas break, if you will. I have always said shooting is mostly a big math problem, and this will give you an idea what I am talking about.

The assignment is to watch the video and come prepared next week to discuss how you would apply the covered concepts to shooting. Important: If you already have an idea of the answer, please do not mention it in the comments this week! The video is 48 minutes long and it's only fair to give everyone who would like to think about it a chance to come up with an answer for themselves. This might be a tough one because you have to think a little beyond the material as presented and apply the concepts to certain shooting situations. The nugget you're looking for is discussed throughout the video so you may not have to watch the whole thing, but its certainly not a waste of time if you do.

Here are the questions I'd like you to answer:
- Which of the concepts presented are relevant to shooting?
- What particular shooting problem can you solve using the concept?
- How would you apply the concept to solve the problem?

Good luck!

I couldn't resist including this pic - Weasel

First up we have a really great idea from or pal Bonecrusher.

It may interest you to look at the low powered end of the spectrum of rifles; in this case - air rifles. The pre-charged pneumatics have improved dramatically over the last decade or so, giving air rifle shooters choices of .177, .22, .25, .30 and up to .50 cal projectiles. Energy levels in .25 of 90FPE and above using pellets or slugs. Probably the best overall in terms of power, shots per fill, flexibility, and most importantly - accuracy, is the FX series. Expect to pay $2000 or more for a fully dressed item from this maker. On the other end of the price scale is the Air Venturi Avenger at about $350 for the nekkid gun. This one also features both an externally adjustable regulator and hammer spring. According to the Tube vids, pellets work best at around 850-920 FPS, slugs can handle greater velocities. The beauty of these two is that they can be fine-tuned in pressure and volume to achieve the desired velocity while using the minimum of air charge.

What intrigues me so much about the air rifles is how quiet they can be, sound moderators are legal and outside the purview of the ATFE as they are not firearms. Being able to dial in the pressure and volume equation with a screwdriver at the shooting bench makes life real nice. Much simpler than handloading gunpowder cartridges, which, after all is said and done is achieving the correct pressure and volume for the given rifle twist, barrel length, projectile specifics and desired muzzle velocity. Air rifles are not for picking off big game at 500 yards; they can, however take feral hogs at 50 yards with head shots, without a whole lot of noise.

The big benefit to air rifles is the ability to shoot in the back yard or inside the house without bothering the neighbors. Of course this requires a proper projectile trap and I have found that a stack of magazines taped together about 3-4" thick will do the job nicely.

Perhaps more people could be brought into the shooting discipline by starting at the low power end.

Wow! Things have really changed since 1970 and my Red Ryder days! How about the rest of you? Anyone else shooting air rifles? Seems to me like not a bad idea to have one around for these uncertain times we're living in together.

Next up, our pal Ed L sends in another excellent review!

I picked up this Benelli M4 right before COVID hit, adding the Aimpoint Comp M5 later. This is one of the military/law enforcement models, with a full 7 shot magazine tube and three position collapsible stock. Arguably the creme de la creme of tactical shotguns, it still has all the drawbacks of shotguns. There are a lot of pluses to this, not the least of which is the relatively mild recoil when firing full power defense loads of buckshot or slugs. But this shotgun still has significant drawbacks, which include:

Length of pull: Most Benelli M4s have fixed, full length stocks. If you have short arms, this can be a potential dealbreaker because the ergonomics just don't work. SRA Blaster and Iris found that the middle position of the stock suited them much better than the fully extended position.

Complexity: This shotgun's manual of arms is more complicated than most pump action shotguns. It includes a bolt hold open feature that allows the shooter to swap the round in the chamber without feeding another from the magazine tube (useful for swapping buckshot for slugs or vice versa). You can also "ghost load" the weapon by placing the shell on the lifter before loading a shell in the chamber to raise the maximum ammo capacity to nine rounds. But this isn't instinctive for new users. It takes a lot of practice to learn.

Benelli M4's are hard to find and cost a lot ($1,800 - $2,000 for starters). The military/law enforcement models are even harder to find and run right now around $4,000. That said, if you have the $$, want the very best shotgun money can buy, and can live with the downsides, grab one of the military/law enforcement models if you see it. Converting one of "neutered" versions from five shots to seven and adding the collapsible stock is doable but is problematic right now due to parts shortages.

Then Ed L decided to do a patterning comparison.

I also looked at the differences in pattern spread for a couple of buckshot loads. First picture is a nine pellet load of Nobel Sport 2.75" 00 buckshot at ten yards. Second picture is a nine pellet load of Fiocchi Home Defense 2.75" 00 buckshot at ten yards. The Nobel Sport load appears to have a wider spread than the Fiocchi load. That said, it may not matter at typical home defense range. Ten yards is pretty close to max range for a typical home defense scenario. But these pictures should debunk Hollywood's depiction of a close-range shotgun blast taking out most of a room like a grenade explosion.

Great work, Ed L! Thanks so much for sending this in!

Next up, our pal JTB shares a great YouTube channel he has found, and this particular video has an important message.

By chance I came across this YouTube channel this morning. It is 'Target Suite'. This latest video is called 'Don't Lose the Magic' about taking time to just enjoy some casual shooting now and then. George is sitting in a comfortable lawn chair with an old Remington bolt action 22 plinking at some steel targets.

Most of his videos are about lever action rifles and single action revolvers so they are near and dear to my heart. The ones I've watched have been both pleasant and informative.

We spend a lot of time here on the Ol' Gun Thread talking about shooting accuracy and, sometimes at the expense of just having fun. It can be easy to get so wrapped up in training and related objectives that we lose sight of the fact that the sport is supposed to be fun. However, there is a time for training and a time for purely recreational shooting, and if you are just a little creative, you can even get some practice on fundamentals at the same time. As I have mentioned before that oftentimes I do exactly what the guy in the video is doing, plinking with a .22, just for the fun of it. Although precision is important, so is remembering the reasons you became a shooter in the first place.

Excellent find, and great lesson JTB. Thank you!

A couple of weeks ago I recommended a new product, Sea Foam Deep Creep and a few people have mentioned ordering it. Have you used it yet and if so, what are your thoughts? Good? Bad? Indifferent? As I mentioned, I am also a big fan of a similar product, Aerokroil, but Deep Creep is about half the price and makes a lot of sense as an alternative especially when being used purely as a surface protectant.

Let us know in the comments if you have an opinion!

Still a few shopping days left before Christmas!

Here's another $2 cigar that I like alot. The Villazon Maduro Robusto from Cigars International. Well made and tends toward the strong side. Muy bueno!

Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

This week our pal hogmartin bitch slaps us with some useful knowledge!

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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