Gun Thread: Sunday After Fourth of July Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

I was headed to the farm this week and the plan was to first tackle the grass and vegetation and then to spend a day hootin' and hollerin' and shootin' with some fellow Morons. A couple inches of rain, however, put those most excellent plans on hold for another day. Them's the breaks when you're shooting outdoors. Bummer.

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

Over the last few weeks, we have talked a bit about elevation and windage in long distance shooting, and I have mentioned it's a good idea to keep notes on previous outings handy along with your rifle. Are you keeping notes? If not, why not? If you aren't recording data each and every time you go out, you are missing a really valuable opportunity to gather important information.

What sort of data am I talking about? Well, it can be anything really. Phone numbers of the hot range babes, weather information, lottery numbers, poetry, and oh I don't know, how about range to target and elevation?

Let's review some basics.

The most significant factors determining a bullet's ballistic arc are velocity, bullet weight, and atmospheric conditions, and every pairing of rifle A and ammo B (and atmosphere 3) are going to produce different results. Period. Sometimes by a little and sometimes by a lot. You might not notice a big difference at 100 yards, but it will begin to make a difference as you move farther out. By 300 yards or so the differences will become so pronounced you might be missing the target altogether. As long as you are shooting the same rifle and the same ammo, and practicing sound fundamentals, the rest is simply a math problem.

And I mean exactly the same rifle and ammo. If your buddy has scored a killer deal on surplus Czechoslovakian factory-second ammo, and wants you to try it, you're going to need to establish a zero first. There is no getting around this if you want to move from 100 yards to 200 yards and so forth out to say 500 yards and accomplish much besides wasting time.

Repeat after Weasel: Every time you change ammunition you need to re-zero your rifle if you plan on engaging more distant targets with any degree of success.

Begin each range session by checking your point of impact at the same distance which you zeroed the rifle and ammo originally. If the bore is clean, disregard the first couple of rounds as they will perform differently as the barrel becomes fouled. Why do this? Aren't the rifle and the ammo the same? Yes, but something else has more than likely changed, and that is the weather. Yep, atmospheric conditions play a part in the bullet's performance in as little as a few hundred yards. You may have been shooting out the center of the target last week, but today everything is going low by let's say an inch, and that one inch at 100 yards will become over five inches at 500 yds. By confirming your data at the same 100 yards, you can make adjustments to the zero before everything becomes a train wreck at 500 yards. By eliminating the atmospheric component first, you don't have to worry (much) about it later. With me so far?

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to take some of the work out of the process and get started sooner on impressing range babes? Well, there is, and this is where you range notes become useful. Say you take your favorite rifle and ammo to the range for an afternoon of shooting at distances out to 500 yards. You checked the zero at 100 yds and made the necessary adjustments, and now your buddy wants to go out to 300 yards. Let's go Hombre!

Except you don't know what to do with the little up/down and right/left knobs on the scope. Look at your damn notes! The last time you were shooting that gun and that ammo at 300 yds, you recorded 300/4.25 in your little notebook, and since atmospherics have now largely been removed from the list of variables, you dial up 4.25 MOA, take the shot and clang the target! Woo-hoo! You thump your chest triumphantly and begin your happy dance behind the line. Want to go out to 500 yds? No problemo! Check your little notebook and find 500/11.0, dial up to 11.0 MOA and make that target look stupid too!

Beginning to see the value of range data?

Q: Weasel, what if I am unable to check my zero and really, really need to hit a 500 yard target on my first shot?
A: You're screwed.

Yep. I mean, you can try dialing up the 11 MOA, but chances are you're wasting ammo, and unless you are shooting into a large earthen berm you probably will not have a clue where the bullet is going. That's about the time you begin to spaz out and try to solve the problem with a large volume of essentially undirected fire, as the hot range babe looks at you with pity and disgust and begins packing her shit to get away from the pathetic spectacle you have become.

Geez - too bad there isn't a way to incorporate atmospheric data as part of your range data too. You know, somebody really should invent that.

Well, you're in luck. Airplane pilots and race car drivers, as well as shooters, also need a way to quantify and summarize changes in atmospheric conditions. The result is a measurement known as "density altitude" or DA, which affects things like the lift of a wing and the performance of an engine, as well as ballistics. Density Altitude is simply an expression of four measurable local elements; elevation, air temperature, atmospheric pressure and humidity, compared to those of a standard atmosphere. These are the factors that make the atmosphere more or less dense and change the performance characteristics of your bullet.

There is a nifty little device which I have recommended here approximately 74,218.3 times made by a company called Kestrel. The basic 5000 series will measure DA and there are even models with ballistic functions.

Good News: With their Series 5000 models and up, you can measure density altitude whenever and wherever you like.
Bad News: The Series 5000 models begin at $269.
Badder News: The 5700 Ballistics models start at $400.

So now you're back at the range and the hot range babe hasn't left yet. Mom gave you a Kestrel for your birthday, in the hope you will one day get married and move out of the basement, and you have been recording DA along with range to target and elevation data for a couple of months. All you need to do then is to find a previous measurement close to your current conditions and you have your elevation data, and with that, you stand a fairly good chance at a first round hit on a 500-yard target.

Is that important to you? Is it worth $300, $400 or more? Well, it depends on how interested you are in making a first-round hit. You might not be interested in making that investment, and that's OK. Not everyone wants or needs that level of precision, but it's nice to know the options exist. Every single time you shoot your rifle, note the ammo used, distance to target, and the elevation data.

I always recommend, insist really, that shooters have a good working knowledge of ballistics and be able to engage targets based on data collected from previous engagements. All the earlier stuff is related to elevation only with no mention of windage (yet), where a different set of processes exist in terms of estimating wind speed and direction and converting those to a firing solution. These are things you really need to be able to do quickly in your head and without using an app or other ballistic aid to come up with the correct answers. Conditions change constantly and you simply cannot spend precious time fumbling around with gear to compute the effect of wind. When I am spotting for a shooter, I tell them if they have not taken the shot within three seconds of my wind call not to bother pulling the trigger because I need to re-compute the firing solution. Having help is fine, but there may come a day when you want or need to take an important shot quickly.

Questions? Ask away in the comments or drop me a line.

Next week we dive into compensating for wind - Math warning!

Guess who offers free online classes on using their products? Kestrel does!

From the Kestrel website:

Sign up to receive FREE live virtual product training from Kestrel Ballistics! You've got questions? We've got you covered. Kestrel Ballistics offers virtual classes to help you learn how to make the most of your Kestrel meters and accessories so you can maximize your time at the range.

Written maybe a decade ago - the original post seems to be lost in time, but it's always a good time to recall the concise words from Marco Kloos (pronounced "close") on why the 2nd amendment is so fundamental to the preservation of our civilized society.

Why the Gun is Civilization:
- By Marko Kloos

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Thoughts? Does this reasoning align with your own?

Here are some photos of my "United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917". It is a 30-06 and as patterned after the British Enfield. It was manufactured during 1917 and 1918 and was the main rifle that the U.S. used in WWI. This receiver was made in the spring of 1917 by Remington. The barrel has an ordnance mark on it but no date, but it was re-barreled at some later date. The 1917 was used up until the adoption of the M-1 and it was still used by selected units during WWII.

The thing weighs in at 10.2 lbs. (according to my bathroom scales) and takes 5 rounds loaded into an internal magazine by stripper clip. The sights are peep and one is used up until 200 yards and a separate one on a flip up ladder graduated out to 1800 yards. The front sight can be adjusted for windage. I'm not sure what the battle sight zero was as I never qualified with one. I'm not that old. You can see a shiny screw on the leaf spring used to keep tension on the rear sight. It is no spec but I lost it when I put a scope adapter on it many years ago. I did find an original screw and have yet to put it in.

It's a beast but fun to shoot.

Very nice, Javems! Thank you for sending this in!

Bonus! Here's a video of a deranged lunatic with a Model of 1917 under a delightful canopy of organically grown pine trees.

When we were married 25 years ago, my wife was not a gun person. She wasn't against them or we wouldn't have married, or for them, but they did scare her a little (she's from Canada) and she didn't understand or appreciate the full implications of the Second Amendment. To her credit, she has since come around, telling me that she now feels 'safe' in an armed household.

I had a Ruger .38+P revolver that I had marked to be her gun, but it proved to be too heavy for her. It IS very heavy for a .38 revolver. So I got her a Ruger LCP about 6 years ago, and she has been shooting with me numerous times since. However, she is still not all that enthusiastic about big-bores like I am and refuses to try anything more powerful than a .38 Special.

Sad to say, she is no Annie Oakley. Even at 7 yards, she had trouble keeping them on the paper with the rudimentary open sights of the LCP. What's a loving husband to do? This...

Attached to the LCP is a nifty little laser red-dot that works wonderfully, the ArmaLaser TR. American ingenuity at its best. With this device, she can place all six shots in the black at 7 yards, five out of six at 10 yards, and four out of six at 15 yards. She was so gratified to see how much of a difference the red-dot made in her marksmanship. And confidence is everything when shooting.

From the ArmaLaser website:
Touch Sensor is located in the PERFECT spot
Right at the point where the trigger guard and pistol grip meet. Where your middle finger naturally rests.

It is seamless and immediate and requires no button to be pushed or secondary operation. Move your middle finger forward and the laser will shut off.

WTM goes on to say:

The jacketed bullet shown is the LCP is one of the highfalutin Hornady Critical Defense rounds that I keep in the magazine. Below that is one of my handloads, a 95gr HCRN slug over Bullseye. That's what we use for everyday shooting. Virtually no recoil, which suits her just fine.

I can emphatically recommend the red-dot to other LCP owners. Caveat Emptor - be SURE you are ordering for your actual model of pistol. There IS a difference in the LCP and LCP2 so far as these things are concerned.

I have to say I find lasers and red dots to be distracting in target shooting but think they do have a place for fast target acquisition in a self-defense scenario, and this product seems to be pretty slick.

Thank you WTM! Anyone else using space-age lasers on their guns? Do you like them for general shooting or simply for quick target alignment as I described above? Let us know in the comments!

Musical Interlude

Q: Weasel, why have we never had a Gun Thread musical interlude?
A: I dunno.

Gun Basics 101
I may have already featured this She Equips Herself gal's video on concealed carry in athletic wear, and if so, it's worth watching again!

Cigar of the Week

Our pal and Senior Gun Thread Cigar Correspondent rhomboid brings it with another excellent cigar review. This week he takes a look at the Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 Cameroon.

The Rocky Patel Vintage 2003 Cameroon, robusto size. Excellent construction, easy draw and even burn line, voluminous smoke. Has the typical Cameroon wrapper profile; deep but mellow flavor and a hint of sweetness. A solid choice for those who like that kind of stick. $8 and up online.

Thanks rhomboid!

Here is Cigar Vixen discussing something cigar related.

What's in your humidor?

Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal JT.

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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