Gun Thread: Mid-August Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Jumpin' Lizards! How in the ever-loving Hell did it get to be mid-August? Much of the country continues to grapple with high temps and humidity. Is that the case where you are? Do you generally shoot indoors or out? For you 'outsiders', what steps do you take to not die in the heat?

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

How do yoos folks with multi gubs decide which girl to take to the dance? Posted by: AlaBAMA

This is really a very good question, and one that I have touched on here before. When you go to the range, do you take one gun, several guns, or all of the guns? What, if any, impact does this have on your training??

Every gun is different in terms of 'feel' and handling characteristics. Grips are different, triggers are different, sights are different and felt recoil is different. Sometimes the differences are small and sometimes not. When you add a caliber change to the mix the differences can really become significant. Don't get me wrong, just being on the range affords some training value, but I'm not sure how much of it is lost if you spend an hour at the range and in that time shoot six different weapons.

Simply put, it takes time and practice with the same gun and ammunition to make shooting that gun second nature.

I used to spend a minimum of one hour per week at the indoor range and would generally take as many handguns as I could cram into my range bag. I'd shoot one for a while, usually 50 rounds or less, then move onto another. What was I accomplishing from a training perspective? Was I maximizing my training time? Probably not. I definitely knew that each time I moved to another gun it took a little time to get used to it. I wasn't building on what I'd done before, but rather I was starting over almost from scratch every time I picked up a new gun.

I'm talking about sometimes very small differences, but differences nevertheless. I'm talking about the sort of differences that cannot exist if you want to be sure where the bullet is going to hit before you pull the trigger. I am talking about a level of profiency that takes a lot of time and work to achieve.

I have always stressed the importance of setting objectives for each range session. I recommend taking notes and making whatever was giving you problems the last time on the range the first thing you work on the next time on the range. That's all fine and dandy, but with a bunch of different guns in the mix, repetition certainly suffers and you are doing very little to commit anything to muscle memory.

I get that shooting is fun, and I damn near turned it into a career because for years I spent virtually all of my time doing it. I decided I enjoyed long range shooting and frankly went a little nuts in pursuing it. I had a goal, and logical and methodical training paid off. I am not advocating others go to the extremes that I did, but you do need to make a decision about how serious you are, then plan your range time accordingly.

Do you mostly just enjoy shooting and aren't too serious about making tons of progress? That's fine! Go and have a great time! If you want to get better, however, you need to have a plan. You need to shoot regularly, and that means training with the same weapon. Does it mean you can never shoot a different gun? Of courst not, but it does mean the majority of the time you should be shooting the same weapon and the same ammunition.

So, does that sort of answer the question? It's a long way of saying take whatever gun to the range that you want to get better shooting with. It's that simple. Focus on that gun and ammunition combination the most and dedicate almost all of your effort to training with them.

Questions? Comments? Is Weasel full of poo?

Not sure why I think the farm needs a logo, but what do all ya'll think of this? The business at the bottom translates from Maori, the ancient language of organic tree farming, as "My Excellence Confuses You." I think I may get some stickers made up and stick them to stuff. I want to figure out how to edit the text to be bendy so the whole thing is oval. Anybody know how to do that?

What do you think? Lose the Maori text? Lose the whole idea?

Guns of the Horde
Once again, our pal Ed L sends us a real doozy, this time on the Remington Model 11!

The US military bought small numbers of Remington Model 11 shotguns (a variant of the Browning Auto-5) for WWI, almost entirely for training aerial gunners. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor brought new orders for more training guns with long barrels, but the desperate need to arm security forces meant that large numbers of riot guns with 20-inch barrels entered military service. This particular Model 11 is one of those riot guns, with a total of about 60,000 in all variants delivered from early 1942 to the end of 1944.

The first Model 11s delivered to the US military came from weapons sitting Remington's racks at the start of the war or parts awaiting assembly. These early guns had checkered, varnished walnut stocks, "finger grooves" in the fore-end, and blued, highly polished receivers with engraved "game scenes." This particular Model 11 has a receiver with engraved "game scenes" but lacks the fine wood varnish, "finger grooves" in the fore-end, and checkering in the wrist portion of the stock. This Model 11 marks a transition between the use of "off the shelf" commercial parts on hand in the early portion of the war to the mass production seen for the rest of WWII.

Just forward of the where the barrel joins the receiver, one can see the stamped letters "W L." This is a manufacturing code used by Remington to identify the date they made the barrel. In this instance, the "W" stands for August, and the "L" for 1942. Therefore, this barrel was made in August 1942. This doesn't guarantee that the gun was assembled at this time, but it's unlikely that parts would have sat for months in a bin at this desperate time in WWII. Next to the crossed cannon logo of acceptance by the US Ordinance Corps on the stock are the letters "FJA." These are the initials of Colonel Frank Jarvis Atwood, district chief of the Rochester Ordinance District, who was responsible for inspection and acceptance of weapons produced at the Remington factory. Since Colonel Atwood's tenure began in June 1942 and ran through March 1946, his initials appear on practically all Model 11s delivered to the US military. "The Sportsman" (identified by "The Sportsman" mark on the right side of the bolt) is a variant of the Model 11 that holds only two rounds in the magazine tube vice the four in the Model 11. Besides the bolt marking, the only visible differences between the two are small differences in the magazine tube caps and the fore-ends. The USN modified several thousand Model 11s to fit a cradle mount simulating rear gun mounts on its SBD Dauntless and SB2C Helldiver dive bombers. The guns themselves were refitted with Cutts Compensators, raised aerial gunner ring sights, and spade grips with the trigger mounted between the grips (similar to the M2HB machinegun). The USAAF mounted Model 11s in modified twin mounts to train B-17 and B-24 turret gunners as well. Although never meant for frontline service, some Model 11s still made their way to the front. USN carriers usually had several training gun Model 11s on board to allow fighter pilots and rear gunners to maintain their shooting skills while at sea. The USMC "acquired" Model 11s through a variety of means, few of them authorized. Written and photographic evidence of US Marines using the Model 11 in combat appear in the battles for Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The advent of the jet age ended the use of shotguns for aerial gunnery training, and the US military's preference for pump action shotguns post-WWII meant that Model 11s were withdrawn from service, with most going straight to the military surplus market. The next semi-auto shotgun accepted by the US military would be the Benelli M4 as the M1014 in 1999. Today, the Model 11 is the most abundant collectible US military surplus shotgun from the WWII era.

Holy Shitballs, Ed L! This is excellent! Thank you!

Here's a great short video introducing the program.

Some of the organization's most popular functions are Sales and Service. Not only can you purchase these fantastic old firearms, but have them serviced, too! I have had their Custom Shop re-barrel rifles and they do a fantastic job. Is there out there who seriously doesn't like the idea of owning one a Garand?

Mystified by the different grades of weapons offered for sale? Check this out.

If you are at all serious about it, don't delay. I can't help but think the opportunity isn't going to last forever.

I think these old films are great.

Part One-o

Part Two-o

What do you think? Learn anything?

Get yo' eyeballs outside and look into the northern sky. No, it's not flying saucers, it's Perseid meteor time!

Space.com sez:

The annual Perseid meteor shower is active between July 17 and Aug. 24, according to the Royal Museums Greenwich. The Perseid shower is often a highlight in the calendar of meteor hunters across the globe because it can produce up to 100 meteors per hour and creates bright fireballs and impressive shooting star displays.

That's the good news. The bad news you ask? This annual display probably peaked last nite. Just kidding! You will still be able to see activity for another week or so.

Short story:

Longer story:

Do all ya'll like looking at the night sky as much as I do? One of my favorite things to do at the farm is sit outside after dark looking for satellites and watching for meteors.

I'd like to point out the two upcoming MoMes; one in Oregon on August 19th, and the other in Texas on October 20-21. If you're anywhere near the PNW contact Kindltot and if you're in either the northern or southern hemisphere contact Ben Had for details. The dates and email links are also helpfully included on the main page, left sidebar, so you really have no excuse!

Seriously, people. I have said this probably a hundred times now. These gatherings are a really good time, and I know of no one who regrets having attended one. No kidding. No shit. MoMe veterans will attest to the funness. Don't be a dork, do yourself a favor and get your ass to a MoMe! If you're a MoMe veteran, please encourage the scairdy-cats to join in the fun!

Let me add this - whatever you do, please do not be the retard who tries to impress a new or beginning shooter by handing them a large caliber handgun or be the nincompoop who tries impress others by shooting as fast as possible. You aren't impressing anybody and might just intimidate a potential gun advocate from wanting to come back.

Armed Attorneys
Here's a topic nobody likes to talk or really even think about. Fortunately, it has never happened to me (yet), but that's because I try to be almost comically focused on the four rules:

- Treat every gun as though it's loaded
- Don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot (and kill)
- Keep your &%#@^)$ finger off the trigger
- Know your target and what's behind it

Anyhow, despite the rules people still shoot totally unloaded guns all the time and that sometimes ends tragically. If it happens to you, what should you do?

Anything to add?

Cigar of the Week

This week our pal rhomboid scores again with this excellent review of the Olivia Serie O

Oliva is a large vertically integrated cigar brand that is one of the giants in the 'new world" cigar powerhouse of Nicaragua (cigar-producing countries apart from Cuba get the 'new world" label, interestingly). They've been known for quality and value across all their lines. One of their core offerings is the Serie O, a cigar line that is considered medium to full in body. It has an Ecuadorean wrapper (I think habano), with a blend of Nicaraguan fillers from several of the country's tobacco regions.

The petite corona, or No. 4 size (pictured here) for me was a solid medium cigar, with rich tobacco and wood flavors with a hint of sweetness. Construction was fine, with an easy draw and even combustion. Other vitolas of this line can be more full-bodied. Owning the process from field to shipping dock has allowed Oliva to keep their prices on the low side, and the Serie O is no exception - you can find it online for as little as $4 and usually no more than $6

Excellent as always, rhomboid! You should be a reviewer for Cigar Aficionado. Thank you!

Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo NEW!

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal CBD. Great one!

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

| Access Comments