Intermarkets' Privacy Policy Support
Donate to Ace of Spades HQ! Recent Entries
Saturday Overnight Open Thread (11/2/24)
Saturday Night Movie Thread [moviegique]: The Bad and the Beautiful (Megalopolis, Joker 2 & more) Hobby Thread - November 2, 2024 [TRex] Ace of Spades Pet Thread, November 2 Gardening, Puttering and Adventure Thread, Nov. 2 So many surprises so close to the election! The Classical Saturday Morning Coffee Break & Prayer Revival Daily Tech News 2 November 2024 Día de los Muertos ONTs Ava-launch Cafe Absent Friends
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024 Captain Hate 2023 moon_over_vermont 2023 westminsterdogshow 2023 Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022 Dave In Texas 2022 Jesse in D.C. 2022 OregonMuse 2022 redc1c4 2021 Tami 2021 Chavez the Hugo 2020 Ibguy 2020 Rickl 2019 Joffen 2014 AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published.
Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups
|
« Saturday Afternoon Chess/Open Thread 09-10-2016 [OregonMuse] |
Main
| Great Moments in Marketing [Weirddave] »
September 10, 2016
Thoughts About "The Nice Guys" and Movies That Push Corporate and Government Conspiracy PlotsFirst, I can't find evidence of this, but it hit me, after watching The Nice Guys, that the film probably began its life as a sequel to Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. The Crowe character is just a slightly rewritten Val Kilmer character. The little girl? Take away her main attribute (her youth) and she could just be a disguised Michelle Monaghan, who was, like the little girl in the Nice Guys, a better detective than Robert Downey Jr. And the Gosling character is not even a rewrite of the RDJr. character. It's just the RDJr. character. Imma guess that this movie was intended as a sequel to KKBB, but then Iron Man happened, and Robert Downey Jr. got too expensive, and so they rewrote it a little bit and stuck it in the 70s. Looking for the background on the KKBB and TNG scripts, I came across this interesting article at ScreenCrush. Yesterday, in the comments, I said something like "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang followed the plot of every Chandler mystery, where there are two mysteries, one seemingly big and important, the other small and unimportant, but it turns out the big one is unimportant and the small one is important." Well that's true, and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang did use quotes and book titles from Chandler (one section is called "The Little Sister"), but apparently Shane Black is using the books of the lesser-known pulp writer Brett Halliday as his actual inspiration. Apparently, he raids these books for clues, and both Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and The Nice Guys lifted clues from Brett Halliday books, but he paid the estate for them, and Halliday is "acknowledged" at the end of both. One of the bits I thought that was clever and new in The Nice Guys was in fact a lifted plot point from a Hallilday book called "Blue Murder." I'm not sure what the clue he borrowed for Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was. But he took it from "Bodies Are Where You Find Them." (Now there's a pulp mystery title for you.) I don't know if Halliday imitated Chandler or the other way around. Chandler has been widely imitated since he wrote -- but before he started writing, at the late age of 29*, he was a big reader of Black Mask and other pulp fiction mags, and learned how to write mysteries by reading other mystery writers (especially Dashiel Hammett). I'm going to grab a Halliday book on Kindle to see if he's worth it. I also mentioned that all Shane Black stories are about conspiracies, either: 1. A giant corporate conspiracy, or 2. A conspiracy by military industrial complex faking a terrorist attack to get funding for counter-terrorism operations The latter one he did in The Long Kiss Goodnight and Iron Man 3. The first one he's done in The Last Boy Scout and The Nice Guys. He explains this in the ScreenCrush article, riffing about a plot point in The Long Kiss Goodnight, about the CIA being involved in, or having prior warning, about the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. My writing partner at the time was helping me out with research. And he brought me a whole stack of research just about the initial World Trade Center bombing, because it was 1994 and 1995 when we were writing this. ’93 is when this first bombing went down. Eh, I kinda buy that. We've actually discussed this (not Black, but corporate/government conspiracies as plot points) a lot of times on this blog. I always say the same thing: Well, corporations make fantastic villains. Why? Well, they have huge resources, they can plausibly hire all that pricey top-drawer assassin talent movie villains always have, and their size -- an army, basically -- offers the hero a serious challenge. A more realistic villain -- a crackhead who murders someone for $100 -- may be more frequently encountered in the real world, but he's not the kind of guy you're gonna think is really good opposition for Martin Riggs or John McClane. The other type of villain people frequently mention as a villain that should be used, but isn't, is a terrorist organization. There's the obvious PC aversion to that, of course. Much more PC to make the "terrorists" really white guys who just want to boost military funding. But the other real drawback is this -- how does the hero encounter Islamic terrorists in a social setting? That's kind of a standard trope in most thrillers, the hostile encounter which actually isn't violent (though there's usually the suggestion it could turn violent). Bond facing down Largo in Baccarat; even McClane got to face down Hans, in the guise of "Bill Clay," in Die Hard. I'm not exactly sure how you'd set it up so that a hero in a movie would encounter a bunch of crazed murder cultists in a social setting. I'm not sure how interesting a conversation would be between a hero and guys who just say "Alluha Akbar." I'm not saying you couldn't make a movie with terrorists as villains -- "The Kingdom" did it. True Lies did it. But where there's no chance of social interaction or infiltration (and how does John McClane infiltrate a mosque?), then you're really not dealing with a thriller or action movie, which is kind of a war movie set in civilian territory. When there's no interaction between hero and enemy except that which is conveyed by gunfire -- that's a straight war movie, or commando movie. It's just not an action thriller. Anyway, I get why the Evil Corporation is such a frequently used trope. My objection isn't about Evil Corporations, which I'll accept as the price of seeing a movie in which the hero is up against a powerful adversary with lots of armed security personnel he can machinegun and grenade his way through. My objection comes when movies -- and Black's keep doing this -- give soft comfort to Truthers and jihadis by claiming they're right, the government really is faking terrorism and pinning it on innocent Muslims. I wouldn't mind that plot except that so many actually believe this premise and except that we are currently in a war with a major propaganda front in which nonsense like this can actually have battlefield effects. I didn't mind the Truther plot of The Long Kiss Goodbye, because the WTC bombing seemed like an incompetent, botched attack by a bunch of idiots that was frightening, but not likely to lead to anything too much worse. Byt after 9/11, after ISIS -- now that we know exactly how murderous and how effective these subhuman savages can be -- I don't see how one pushes this line as a plot. Moviemakers routinely refuse to do plots they think will have some postulated dire social effect -- no one would do a Death Wish today. Too many minorities being shot by a white guy empowered by a gun -- it could inspire a white right-wing racial avenger. Okay, I get that. Understandable enough. People copy things they see in movies. Not often, but it happens enough that one might be a bit alarmed by the thought of it. But then why is okay to push the cherished Islamist line that they have struck a mighty blow against the West, and simultaneously that they had nothing to do with it, it was all just a trick of the American government and of course the Jews? I agree with Black that it's fun to toy with the idea of conspiracies as real in movies. Capricorn One-- a movie about Moon Landing Conspiracy paranoia. (Yes, it was about a faked Mars landing, but it was playing on Moon paranoia.) Fun. Parallax View -- JFK/RFK/MLK assassination conspiracy paranoia. Good movie. 12 Monkeys -- one of my favorites. Postulates, basically, that every schizophrenic's beliefs about hearing voices in his head are true. (Maybe slightly evil, though: I wonder if psychiatrists encounter resistance from patients who cite 12 Monkeys as evidence the voices are real.) Obviously the X-Files did a lot with UFO cover-up conspiracies. But you know, I don't think I'd do a movie where conspiracy theories about the Holocaust being Faked by Jews turned out to be true. Seems to me that would have some rather awful real-world consequences. That it would give sooth and succor to all the wrong people. And for similar reasons, I wouldn't push Islamist Victimization narratives as movie plots either. * Oh I think he didn't start writing until his mid-40s or something. Eh, I make that mistake all the time. | Recent Comments
Kindltot:
"[i]Jack Nicholson was in the most great movies. Or ..."
naturalfake : "The Fall is coming out in 4k soon. The Christma ..." BruceWayne: "she really 14, tho'? I think there's an implicatio ..." Werner Herzog Has Opinions: "Pawn, Scampy Dog, and AOP, thanks for the very kin ..." moviegique (buy my books): "May Pearl actress committed suicide. --- That' ..." Just Some Guy: "On that happy note, guess I'll go watch a movie (n ..." All Hail Eris, Candy Bomber: "Just requested "The Fall" DVD from my library. Th ..." Stateless: "Is she really 14, tho'? I think there's an implica ..." moviegique (buy my books): "286 I'll check out "The Fall". I like Lee Pace and ..." Stateless: "The movie concerns a woman psycho who wants to ste ..." Pug Mahon, Balding American: "Speaking of Harrison Ford, I am watching the Frisc ..." Werner Herzog Has Opinions: "Fun fact: David Howard Thornton, art the clown, tr ..." Recent Entries
Saturday Overnight Open Thread (11/2/24)
Saturday Night Movie Thread [moviegique]: The Bad and the Beautiful (Megalopolis, Joker 2 & more) Hobby Thread - November 2, 2024 [TRex] Ace of Spades Pet Thread, November 2 Gardening, Puttering and Adventure Thread, Nov. 2 So many surprises so close to the election! The Classical Saturday Morning Coffee Break & Prayer Revival Daily Tech News 2 November 2024 Día de los Muertos ONTs Ava-launch Cafe Search
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings) George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party" Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?" Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance Collective Names for Groups of People John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive" Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments John Edwards Campaign Excuses John Kerry Pick-Up Lines Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney Torments in Dog-Hell Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny More Margaret Cho Abuse Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed" Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means Wonkette's Stand-Up Act Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report! Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet The House of Love: Paul Krugman A Michael Moore Mystery (TM) The Dowd-O-Matic! Liberal Consistency and Other Myths Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate "Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long) The Donkey ("The Raven" parody) |