Intermarkets' Privacy Policy Support
Donate to Ace of Spades HQ! Contact
Ace:aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com Buck: buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com CBD: cbd at cutjibnewsletter.com joe mannix: mannix2024 at proton.me MisHum: petmorons at gee mail.com J.J. Sefton: sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com Recent Entries
A bold educational change in New Zealand
The Classical Saturday Coffee Break & Prayer Revival Daily Tech News 21 December 2024 Just The ONT, Ma'am Giant Animals Cafe Quick Hits Democrat Strategist Ruy Texiera: The Public Gave the Democrats a Clear Message About Their Rejection of Identity Marxism, But the Democrats Don't Want to Listen Kamala Harris To Be Offered $20 Million in a Media Payoff Disguised as an "Advance" on Book Royalties Plus: Media Makes Excuses for Covering Up Biden's Obvious Senility AGAIN: A Car Plows Through a German Christmas Market at a Very High Speed, Sending People Flying Like Bowling Pins, Killing an Unknown Number David Samuels: Barack Obama Created and Maintains an Echo Chamber Messaging System That Deranges and Perverts People's Thinking Every Day Absent Friends
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024 Captain Hate 2023 moon_over_vermont 2023 westminsterdogshow 2023 Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022 Dave In Texas 2022 Jesse in D.C. 2022 OregonMuse 2022 redc1c4 2021 Tami 2021 Chavez the Hugo 2020 Ibguy 2020 Rickl 2019 Joffen 2014 AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published.
Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups
|
« Democratic "Civil War:" Nutroots Threatens Democratic Lawmakers |
Main
| Too F'n Awesome: CNN Has Its Own Spin to Explain Elections »
November 03, 2009
Thoughts on the Republican "Civil War"This continues to be a major point of contention on blogs, with long threads bursting out whenever the topic is brought up. I thought maybe I would try again to address this. Sorry; I posted an unfinished version of this earlier, by accident. To be honest, it still isn't "finished;" it is merely abandoned, as they say. I give up in writing it. First of all, allow me the use of the terms "maximalists" and "pragmatists" as the terms of discussion. Words like "Purist," and, on the other side "RINO" and "sell-out" aren't appreciated by anyone of the receiving end of them. I don't know if "maximalist" or "pragmatist" are also bad terms, but I'll assume provisionally they're okay. I'm just trying to find non-offensive words for this stuff. I do not think these two camps are as far apart as their proponents seem to think. It is often the case that maximalists accuse, or suggest, that pragmatists aren't interested in electing more conservative candidates, or of supporting more conservative primary challengers to confirmed RINOs. And it often the case that pragmatists (including myself) seem to talk as if the maximalists are unaware that a Tom Coburn type candidate wouldn't fare so well in liberal New Jersey or arch-Democratic Maryland. To the extent the positions of each respective side get parodized and turned into straw-men, let us have less of that. The maximalists have to stop, stop treating anyone who mentions a legitimate practical-world concern to a maximalist slate of candidates as some sort of sell-out "without principle" and "without integrity." (Having been on the receiving end of that sort of thing, I can tell you: Insults are not persuasive, and actually only harden one's position against you.) And on the pragmatist side of things, we can stop with the bait-ish expressions like "fantasy world" and other statements that imply the maximalist is less than lucid. More on that later, though: I do think that some of the maximalists are in fact simply dismissing electoral reality as an inconvenience easily ignored, and almost as easily overcome, and we do need to discuss that. But we need more constructive manners of expressing that, I guess, as "fantasy" is taken as offensive. To get back to the "we are not so far apart thing:" There is hardly any question, in my mind, at least, that ideological conservatives, including myself, the cobloggers, and even a hated "RINO" like Allah (PS, he's not a RINO), agree with the maximalists that we should exert pressure, through dollars, agitation, and primary challengers, to push the GOP slate of candidates broadly to the right, and to try to enforce more conservative voting-discipline on them all. I think in substance, we agree. We are talking, chiefly here, about tactics and strategy: The pragmatists, too, want to see a more conservative GOP. (Actual conservative pragmatists, I mean, as opposed to people like David Frum, who simply want a more left wing party.) What we are disagreeing on is how much is possible. If I don't think it's possible, for example, that a 100% pro-life candidate can get elected in suburban New Jersey, I'm not being a sell-out or trying to actively thwart the pro-lifers. My belief is not an ideological one: I can root for the Giants, but when they play the Eagles, as they did yesterday, my strong hunch is that they're going to lose badly. (As they did.) I think the maximalists are confusing two sets of people: 1. People like David Frum who make claims about what is or what is not electorally possible, because he wishes to push the party to the left. His claims about electoral viability are in fact pretext: He uses this excuse to push his own substantive liberal agenda, under the guise of "viability." But in fact, viability is an afterthought: He wants a more leftwing party because he's a more leftwing guy, and at the end of the day, he doesn't really care which is actually more electorally viable. He just wants a liberal Republican Party and he's using any argument at hand to achieve that. 2. People like me who really do want a more conservative GOP, but really are concerned that if you push this too far, if you push candidates that are too far out of sync with their districts, you're going to wind up with a more conservative slate of candidates, but a much more liberal government and much more liberal America, because a great candidate who's good on the issues but who loses an election gets no vote. If the GOP were to lose further seats in the Senate, for example, health care would have already passed -- the problem the Democrats have is that they have a filibuster-proof majority in theory, but several of their members are wobbly. Add in five or six more Democratic Senators and I think you'd be able to cobble together a real filibuster proof majority, even with five defectors, with enough liberals to push anything through the Senate, and any Supreme Court nominee too. I really think a major problem here is that the maximalists think the pragmatists are lying, that what we really crave is a more liberal GOP, and we are using this phony argument to contend for indirectly what we don't have the guts to contend for directly. That we want liberal Senators and Representatives, but we don't have the guts to say so, so we are conjuring up phony fears about losing elections. I can only give you my word this isn't true. For one thing: Well, I'm not the the most ideological conservative guy, but I have demonstrated on most occasions I am in fact more ideologically conservative than the squishes in the GOP. I don't like the squishes. I say so on a daily basis. Why would I attempt to push for more of them? For another thing, I have attacked David Frum and Ryan Sager for always dressing up their own policy preferences -- "global warming," gay marriage, etc. -- as necessary electoral strategies. Again and again I have pointed out that the traditional marriage position (anti-gay-marriage, I mean), for example, is either a net-vote-winner or a wash, and not, as David Frum and Ryan Sager contend, some sort of albatross dragging the party down. So in that example I have specifically called out people that I think are dishonestly disguising their own political preferences as what is supposedly necessary for the good of the party, pretending that they're just telling us "the way it is" when in fact they're really trying to tell us "the way we would like it to be." And I guess that doesn't mean I'm immune from the charge that I'm doing it too, but... well, I think it sort of shows that I'm not. Maybe not conclusively, but it's certainly evidence of that. I am not lying when I say I doubt that a pro-life candidate could ever be elected in most districts in New Jersey. Perhaps a couple of the more rural districts in the south and west of the state -- but the bulk of the state is urban and suburban, and gets its social mores from New York City and Philadelphia. (Most of populous New Jersey is in fact just suburbs of those big cities, of course.) It is not a con when I tell you, having grown up there, and having watched New Jersey turn from a gettable Republican state in 1992 to a deep blue Democratic state in 2008, New Jersey is mainly liberal, especially on social issues, and there is just no chance of getting a strongly pro-life candidate in most of the districts there. The best you can do is a pro-choice-with-restrictions kind of candidate... who doesn't even advertise those views very loudly, except (say) to point out his opponent's support of partial birth abortion. There are opinions and there are facts. And there is ideology and then there is electoral reality. And these issues keep getting confused, together I think, by some (but not all) in the maximalist camp. I keep saying stuff like New Jersey can't elect more than one or two pro-life Representatives, max; and the odds of a pro-life Senator running statewide getting elected are either grim or none. This is purely a statement about electoral reality and strategy, not about the substance of the issue at all. A lot of the time the response is about how, on the substance of the issue, abortion is a moral wrong that everyone should be against, and we need to just persuade people of that. Well, may be; but that doesn't address the point made. Most voters in New Jersey disagree with that proposition and are, in fact, as certain of their pro-choice stance as pro-lifers are of theirs. Given that, do we run a pro-choice-with-restrictions candidate or the pro-life one in liberal leaning but not impossible-to-win districts? I just think that two distinct issues keep getting jumbled up as if there is no real distinction between them: politics, also known as "the art of the possible," and philosophy, also known as "the art of the truth." Philosophy obviously strongly influences politics, but the two things are distinct; politics is more than, and less than, philosophy. It's not just about what is ideal. It's about getting what is closest to the ideal, or, if that is impossible (check out our current president and Congress), what is at least tolerable. What the maximalists don't seem to acknowledge is that pragmatists like myself are on their side, in the main, as regards philosophy. But I do in fact distinguish between the ideal, the merely good, the merely tolerable, and the absolutely intolerable, and I am worried that all this agitation in favor of the ideal is going to risk bringing us not even the "merely tolerable," but the absolutely intolerable. That is my fear. I think the maximalists are talking up their hopes -- best-case scenarios -- while pragmastists are talking their fears -- worst-case scenarios. Personally, I'm in favor of trying for the best-case scenario most times it's within reach (see my previous support of Pat Toomey), but I do in fact fear the worst-case scenario that if you push too hard for your political ideal, make things a bit too ideological and too clear, voters will reject that for liberal candidates who talk in gauzy, feel-good platitudes that seem to eschew ideology... and then vote like liberal motherfuckers once in office. Sound familiar? Sound like someone you know? I restate the age-old imperative of politics: Do not make too many clear commitments, unless they're plainly popular ones commanding 60%+ support, because every time you do, you alienate another segment of the voting population. If you become too clear and too precise about your intentions and philosophy, and you will not be rewarded for it, but punished, because the guy with the vaguer, less honest platform will win the election. Vague platforms win elections, because they induce large numbers of people to think that that candidate agrees with them; he has been vague enough that many people are deceived into thinking he's on their side. Very specific, very clear candidates tend to lose, because their honesty is actually a detriment: They announce loudly and clearly and forthrightly to a large number of people I disagree with you; I'm not going to con you here and pretend we share common ground on this issue: I flat-out, honestly, forthrightly disagree with you, and will vote against your preferences on these issues. They are upfront about it, and they are subsequently punished for their honesty. Again: Barack Obama. My fear is that there is a campaign afoot for what could be called "honest philosophy," with conservative candidates laying down iron-clad guarantees about where they are on each and every issue, and this is precisely contrary to sound politics -- which in fact tends to involve a great deal of dishonesty. I don't want all these pledges and cast-iron guarantees on divisive issues. I want a little bit more flexibility for the candidate. Not necessarily because I want him to get into office and vote more liberally, but because I fear he cannot be voted into office at all if he vows a very specific, very honest conservative position on all divisive issues. This is my fear: Some are pushing "integrity" and ideological soundness not only at the expense of electoral strategy, but sometimes without even considering the latter, almost dismissing such concerns not as frivolous, but as something close to immoral. I say "immoral" because when I make this case I am often told I lack integrity and so on. So we seem to be having here a discussion not really about politics per se, but of political morality. I don't think that is the way to win elections. Politics is fundamentally, at its heart, a dishonest game. It is. It always has been and it always will be, and I don't really think there's much point talking about whether it should be this way. It is this way. No should about it. It is a game -- a game -- with big real-world consequences, but it still observes the rules of a game. And in a game, like poker, you don't go all-in every hand, and you don't put a lot of money on bad bets. That way lies bankruptcy and an early exit from the table. Resources are finite, some bets are good, while others are indifferent, or bad, or positively disastrous, sometimes taking a big romantic death-or-glory chance makes sense but often it doesn't. But never in poker should you ever begin to think "I will make this big bet because I should win it; I have greater integrity in this game, and therefore I deserve win." As Clint Eastwood said, "Deservin's got nothin' to do with it."
| Recent Comments
[/i][/b]andycanuck (hovnC)[/s][/u]:
"Maral Salmassi @MaralSalmassi
Despite claims made ..."
jimmymcnulty: "Are Australian pizzas served upside down. Asking ..." Viggo Tarasov: "Hey, that tweezer thing can really pluck someone u ..." Eromero: "322 German police valiantly confiscating a Swiss A ..." Anna Puma: "BOLO Rowdy the kangaroo has jumped his fence an ..." fd: "You can't leave Islam. They won't let you. ..." [/b][/s][/u][/i]muldoon, astronomically challenged: "German police valiantly confiscating a Swiss Army ..." Cicero (@cicero43): "Hamas clearly recognises that when the cultural es ..." Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd: "The only way you can defend this position is to ei ..." Ciampino - See you don't solve it by banning guns: "303 BMW pretty low to ground ... at least it wasn ..." NaCly Dog: "I had a UPS package assigned to a woman in another ..." Dr. Not The 9 0'Clock News: "One high school history teacher I remember well, a ..." Recent Entries
A bold educational change in New Zealand
The Classical Saturday Coffee Break & Prayer Revival Daily Tech News 21 December 2024 Just The ONT, Ma'am Giant Animals Cafe Quick Hits Democrat Strategist Ruy Texiera: The Public Gave the Democrats a Clear Message About Their Rejection of Identity Marxism, But the Democrats Don't Want to Listen Kamala Harris To Be Offered $20 Million in a Media Payoff Disguised as an "Advance" on Book Royalties Plus: Media Makes Excuses for Covering Up Biden's Obvious Senility AGAIN: A Car Plows Through a German Christmas Market at a Very High Speed, Sending People Flying Like Bowling Pins, Killing an Unknown Number David Samuels: Barack Obama Created and Maintains an Echo Chamber Messaging System That Deranges and Perverts People's Thinking Every Day Search
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings) George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party" Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?" Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance Collective Names for Groups of People John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive" Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments John Edwards Campaign Excuses John Kerry Pick-Up Lines Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney Torments in Dog-Hell Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny More Margaret Cho Abuse Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed" Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means Wonkette's Stand-Up Act Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report! Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet The House of Love: Paul Krugman A Michael Moore Mystery (TM) The Dowd-O-Matic! Liberal Consistency and Other Myths Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate "Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long) The Donkey ("The Raven" parody) |