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March 13, 2007

Google, Destroyer of Reputations

Interesting piece about employers using Google to dredge up derogatory internet information on potential employees as part of its vetting process.

Althouse wrote about it here, thinking it was rather unlikely that stand-out Yale law school graduates would be denied job offers simply because some jagoffs commented upon their looks on a chatboard.

I half-agree with her -- it's unlikely that the comments would have weighed into the decision. However, it's somewhat more likely that older people making hiring decisions don't get this whole new thing among younger people of posting personal information and pictures on-line in Facebook, MySpace, etc., considering it a form of exhibitionism; and the numerous mentions of these women by these dopes on-line would have made their names more prominent in a Google-search, revealing the pictures to the potential employers. And, employers not getting this whole Facebook-is-considered-perfectly-normal-for-twentysomethings dealio, might have held the women's internet presence against them.

Plus, there's always the subconscious. If you open up a search and see nothing but "I'd love to bang that bitch," you're going to have certain ideas about this person in your head, even though, on a rational level, you realize the woman involved did very little at all to encourage such thoughts.

Did this happen to these women, hurting their chances in the job market? Probably not. Could it happen? Certainly.

Jill from Feministe is complaining of this:

For women who aren’t as public as I am, whose names don’t bring up almost 2,000 Google hits, this could very well be the first thing an employer comes across. And middle-aged Big Law attorneys may not be the most savvy people in the world when it comes to internet communities. They see a thread talking about the promiscuity of a woman they’re considering hiring, and that raises red flags. They see a link to a contest, where that woman’s smiling pictures are posted and on first glance it appears that she fully consented to participate, and it might be a deal-breaker. While, from a feminist perspective, I think it’s silly that participation in a beauty contest can make or break your job prospects, the reality is that it can. It looks unprofessional, narcissistic and childish, and definitely not what they want clients to see if they end up hiring you and your name is on their employee website.

I dunno. I don't want to make excuses for jagoffs, but the fact is that guys talk about chicks' looks. (And chicks' talk about guys' looks, and political opponents denigrate each others' looks, etc.) We're just not used to being confronted with it in public forums, having to read what is usually being said of us (fortuitously!) behind our backs.

The new weird thing the Internet brings into this is that this is all public. And not just public -- permanent. The spoken word is gone the split-second after it's said. A word written on the Internet, however, lasts forever, or at least until global warming fries all the circuits of all the servers in the world.

I'm kind of down on this whole living-out-one's-life-on-the-Internet for reasons such as these. I know a girl who'd meant to be an anonymous blogger but who got pretty weirded out by an agressively-datamining cyberstalker who figured out her real name from hints she'd left on her blog, and then of course told her how hot her picture was on Facebook, and mention that he knew where she lived, etc. And Bill InDC has asked me a couple of times to delete his name from some posts and comments, not wanting his name to pop up in a Google search. PS, don't use his last name here anymore; he always asks me to delete it, and I guess I see why.

There's an awful lot of naivete out there. You're not just posting your name and pictures for a your friends; your posting this stuff for the entire world, including for certifiable whack-jobs as well as less-dangerous but still upsetting "I would not hit that" Studman69 cads.

That's not to say anyone deserves bad treatment. But this sort of thing follows logically from posting so many details on line for the entire world to see. It's not morally justified -- but it is logically inevitable.

By the numbers: about 1% of all people are criminals or diagnosable psychopaths. Another 10% are unmitigated assholes. Another 20% are fine in real life, but due to the Internet's disinhibiting effects, are unmitigated assholes on line. (Hey, I fall into that category a lot myself.) And a big chunk of people aren't really assholes at all, but are willing to get into "Hot or Not?" discussions about people which a lot of people do in private but can seem pretty horrifying if the subject of their dissections should come across their dissections in a public forum.

All told, there are approximately four billion people in the world you probably should not be posting your private information and pictures for, as opposed to the twenty or thirty friends and family members you actually want to share this stuff with.

Seems to me the numbers would suggest it's probably best just to email your friends any pictures you think they might like, rather than posting them online.

Again, just so I'm not misinterpreted: Moral fault does not necessarily follow logical cause.

Since no one is going to take my advice, though -- Facebook, MySpace, etc., are all here to stay -- I guess people are just going to have to get used to this stuff. Everyone's going to have to realize that putting themselves out there into the ether may wind up giving them a great deal of unwanted attention at some point.

Oh: I got this off of Bloggingheads, where Althouse talks to Instapundit and Dr. Helen.

Since Dr. Helen is "putting it out there" online, I'll just say, in my best cyberstalky Jame Gumb voice, her unexpected Southern twang really gives her that Andie-MacDowell-in-Sex, Lies, & Videotape-after-her-sexual-awakening thing.

One thing she briefly touches upon: The right is not, repeat not, anti-sex, as the left's fevered imaginings have it. So please, "liberal idiots" (as Democratic Representative David Obey calls you), please, please stop claiming it's "hypocrisy" of some kind when someone on the right mentions the fact that they like sex.

It's just dumb, and you sound even stupider than usual when you trot this one out.



digg this
posted by Ace at 10:53 PM
Comments



Good post, Clarence.

Posted by: Slublog on March 13, 2007 10:56 PM

I agree with Chaz up there.

Posted by: Warden on March 13, 2007 10:59 PM

As a current law student, we all got the warning about myspace/facebook come hiring time. Almost everyone here is on facebook, and there are some damning (and hilarious) pics on there, myself included. It's just part of socializing now, you go out, and put pics up on facebook. The good thing about facebook is it used to be restricted to just college students, so it wasn't an issue. Facebook is open to anyone now, but they have good privacy settings.

Myspace, on the other hand, is open to everyone, so most people i know keep it pretty blank. It's amazing some of the things people put on there - not just the drunk pictures, but political screeds/ rants etc., that don't exactly put them in the best light. I can definately see partners at firms having their more tech savvy junior associates look into their summers' myspace pages to see "the other side". That's why mine is pretty much blank.

Posted by: corn on March 13, 2007 11:01 PM

I should give a shit if someone doesn't get a job with Big Law Firm? It's not that they are unemployeable. So, they have to go with Not So Big Law Firm. Boo hoo hoo.

Posted by: red on March 13, 2007 11:07 PM

My employer recently made a big hire.  As part of that process, I was asked to do a public records search for stories or other information about the candidates.

You would be amazed at what is out there - the internet has a long memory.



Posted by: Slublog on March 13, 2007 11:08 PM

I'm still not sure what was going on with that Yale Law student thing.

Did it somehow metnion something derogatory about her by name, such that it would pop up if you googled ner name? Or was she described anonymously, such that you'd have to do some heavy investigating to piece togehter that they were talking about her?

From the way I've heard people blow off her complaints, I get that it was the latter. But the former? I can see firms doing this - matter of fact it seems kinda negligent by any employer nowadays not to run a name through google. Or even dating someone. Just good sense to run the name.

Anyway, I've halfway read about three articles on this Yalie now and I still aren't sure what the facts were.

Posted by: Ray Midge on March 13, 2007 11:09 PM

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I deleted my own blog a few days ago, just shy of 1000 posts; and posted a robots.txt which (I think) will purge the Google cache.

I'm at a point in my life where I am unusually dependent on the good-will of strangers. After writing (almost) 1000 essays of varying size, merit, and political correctitude, I need some time to rethink all I've written. Some data-miner isn't going to read it all in context; s/he is going to seek out the worst of what I have written (or the spinnably worst) and judge me on that.

Mind, I've said a lot worse on UseNet 1998-2001, but there at least I can say "Yeah I was a moron back then and I've moved on". Besides if I did have a DeLorean there are other incidents I'd change by preference.

Posted by: David Ross on March 13, 2007 11:09 PM

I am in know way related to that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.

Posted by: michael bolton on March 13, 2007 11:11 PM

And you all thought I didn't give Slublog a recognizable photo of myself for the Faces of Ace's page because I am horribly, hideously, repulsively ugly.  HA! 

Well, that may have been part of the reason......



Posted by: wiserbud on March 13, 2007 11:11 PM

And by the way, "I still aren't... " is how all the sexy people talk nowadays. The new thing. Trust me.

Posted by: Ray Midge on March 13, 2007 11:12 PM

That kooky feminist:

And middle-aged Big Law attorneys may not be the...

Someone should change these fem-bots' program to think in terms other than "middle-aged...white man...fat...attorney...balding...authoritarians...Big Law...Big Oil...Big Macho...Big Pharma...Big Keepin' the Wimmin Down Lobby."

She says, "from a feministe perspective." These poor world-beaters, so desperate to be part of something, yet too cowardly and selfish to actually make a real difference in the world.

I don't want to pick on Jill, I'm sure she has enough problems, but why don't these activists get out of the trendy coffee shops and get away from their silly clubs and go out and actually help a poor person, or take in a woman who has been abused?

It's all bullshit, Jill. All of it. Everything you stand for is meaningless and self-serving.

Posted by: Bart on March 13, 2007 11:17 PM

And by the way, "I still aren't... " is how all the sexy people talk nowadays. The new thing. Trust me.



Cooooool.  I didn't know that.  I'm gonna have to use that on my MySpace page while I'm trolling for other hot, sexy people to, ya know, get jiggy and boogie down wit'.

Posted by: wiserbud on March 13, 2007 11:19 PM

I remember the pre-WWW Age of the BBS, and I don't think I ever recall anyone using their real names. Everyone had a handle (a username for those of you who don't know) and things were generally kept pretty anonymous. Of course, I was just on the really small local ones, so I don't know what it was like on places like Compuserve.

This MySpace stuff just seems a little too weird for me.

Posted by: EricTheRed21 on March 13, 2007 11:19 PM

I don't want to pick on Jill, I'm sure she has enough problems, but why
don't these activists get out of the trendy coffee shops and get away
from their silly clubs and go out and actually help a poor person, or
take in a woman who has been abused?


Dood, she could be the next CEO of Big Oil, Inc, but they won't let her do anything 'cept blog, cause she's a girl.  It's not her fault.  It's the fault of all of us evil men that be keeping a sister down!



Posted by: wiserbud on March 13, 2007 11:21 PM

I coulda been a CEO of a Fortune 500 company if it weren't for that goddamned Faces of Ace's picture.

Posted by: Warden on March 13, 2007 11:26 PM

You would be surprised what I would find out about potential job candidates from doing online searches years ago when I was a hiring manager.

One male candidate not only bragged about his sexual prowess online, he indicated how many co-workers he had seduced and had sexual relations with on the job. That resume went in the waste basket.

A female candidate blogged not only about her hangovers at work on Fridays and Mondays, she indicated how often her jugement was impared or her performance suffered as a result of her excessive drinking.

Things like that raise flags regarding potential sexual harassment lawsuits, team building, poor performance and chronic medical issues. So yes, more employers as well as executive search firms, now use search engines as one more tool to screen out candidates.

Posted by: michele on March 13, 2007 11:39 PM

I admit I get a chuckle whenever I think if ryan jerking off to photos of Slublog and Warden.

Posted by: red on March 13, 2007 11:40 PM

I admit I get a chuckle whenever I think if ryan jerking off to photos of Slublog and Warden.

Hahaha.

You are one sick bastard.





Posted by: Slublog on March 13, 2007 11:41 PM

Tree hugging eco-freak green nuts wreckers of jobs rueiner of american enemies of the enviroment

Posted by: spurwing plover on March 13, 2007 11:41 PM

All the femi-nuts I was in school with sought out the Big Firm jobs. Seemed to contradict their three years of revolutionary preaching to those who couldn't run fast enough away. Their rational was that they needed large salaries for "validation." lol!

Posted by: red on March 13, 2007 11:42 PM

While, from a feminist perspective, I think it’s silly that participation in a beauty contest can make or break your job prospects, the reality is that it can.
Right here she just called the feminist perspective 'silly' in the face of reality.
In the next sentence she removes any doubt which might have lingered.
It looks unprofessional, narcissistic and childish, and definitely not what they want clients to see if they end up hiring you and your name is on their employee website.

Posted by: Stephen_M on March 13, 2007 11:44 PM

Michele,

Well, if I'm being honest, I'd have to say my greatest fault as a worker is just being too prompt and too detail-oriented.  It's like I just can't leave the office until everything is perfect and finished.  And then I bring my home work with me.

I just care too much.

KEYWORDS:  ACE OF SPADES WORK HABITS









Posted by: ace on March 13, 2007 11:46 PM

I admit I get a chuckle whenever I think if ryan jerking off to photos of Slublog and Warden.

I'm thinking more Slublog.

Teh gheys aren't much into me. Just too much damned testosterone, apparently.

Posted by: Warden on March 13, 2007 11:49 PM

Next job I apply for, I'm doing so under the name William "Wicked" Pinto.

That ought to light 'em up.



Posted by: ace on March 13, 2007 11:52 PM

Us young peoples tend to overlook the long memory of the internet because these social networking sites are just the norm I've often wondered if political campaigns will one day feature hit pieces featuring old Facebook pages.

My name is easily found, and attached to plenty of disreputable shit out there, in the end I just don't care -- even if I don't get a job because of it. It's like dealing with your grandparents in your mid-20's. I don't feel embarrassed about most of my actions but I'd be embarrassed if they found out some of them -- I'm mean a 300 pounder? How do I explain that one to grandpa? -- the internet is like that..ish.

True be told I'm embarrassed to be candidly telling you strangers this shit...

Posted by: E on March 13, 2007 11:56 PM

Goddam don't I know it.

Under budget ahead of schedule, I turn the IT machine from a bunch of booger eaters to a money making machine. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, never fail never fall under the MS curse. Your CFO would blow me in a month and call it a win.

Keywords: DAVEINTEXAS MAKES IT MONEY

Posted by: Dave in Texas on March 14, 2007 12:01 AM

I'm mean a 300 pounder? How do I explain that one to grandpa?

300 pounder? Tha speaks to iron focus and determination. The man in the 300 pounder club is the go-getter's go getter.

That, sir, belongs on your resume, not hidden away in some google cache. You're hired.

Posted by: Ray Midge on March 14, 2007 12:03 AM

My sister-in-law is director of admissions for a large university. She told me that they now check for an applicant's postings on Facebook and MySpace as a matter of course. She said that they have rejected applicants for inappropriate postings.

Parents of college applicants: be afraid. Be very afraid.

Posted by: Ed Snate on March 14, 2007 12:04 AM

William "Wicked" Pinto.

bad idea, I get fired a lot. VERY competant, pisses off the bosses, but I get bored, so I get fired.

I'd have to say my greatest fault as a worker is just being too prompt and too detail-oriented. It's like I just can't leave the office until everything is perfect and finished. And then I bring my home work with me.

A-FUCKING-MEN!!!

I was, in general a fixer, the particular form doesn't matter, but I can troubleshoot your burnt out video card to the particular pins and shit, but I also can fix simple mechanics ( I was NEVER a car mechanic, though I loved building the pinto, and my 62 T-bird)

I would spend friday nights, for my most fun job other than the Marines, doing "touch-up's" for my customers machines. My "boss" hated it. cuz he wasn't getting money for my time, I told him, "well, you ain't getting phone calls at "MY" site are you?

No, so the contract is MORE valuable right?

Shit like that.

I know how to fix shit, it's what I was brought up doing, I fixed my parents marriage when they needed it, then I fixed my parents divorce. Then I thought I fixed myself, by joining the Marines, and then I fucked up a shitload, and then I fixed that too, geiting a NAM during peace time. I continued to fix shit, thats who I am.

It doesn't matter if you fix a machin, an card, or a process, fixing shit is in my nature, and it's what I'm best at.

You know what bosses hate?

People who fix shit better than them.

At least BAD bosses that is, I've had good bosses, oddly enough only 2 and both of them wore green. my 9 or 10 real world bosses are completely retarded, incapable of taking advantage of my skills.

I'm not a ninja, I'm specialized, that is all.

Posted by: Wickedpinto on March 14, 2007 12:06 AM

Can you IMAGINE! who might hier me, if I admit my online moniker as well as my name in my resume'?

Only anne coulter would hier me, and I would love to kick her in the face.

Posted by: Wickedpinto on March 14, 2007 12:07 AM

And by "kick her in the face" I mean, "Kick her in the face."

Posted by: Wickedpinto on March 14, 2007 12:15 AM

Damn i hate japanese porn. Its so freakin lame. Why the hell do i keep downloading so much of it?

Posted by: kjljk on March 14, 2007 12:17 AM

Cuz you are a perv? download 110% naturals porn. Much better.

Posted by: Wickedpinto on March 14, 2007 12:19 AM

that extra 10% "natural" wouldnt be a penis would it?

Posted by: sgfdhgfh on March 14, 2007 12:21 AM

I don't get it myself a2toisahdgfoaisdhf';oiahjgo[iqafpoizdkihapoighaoigh.

But I think it means BIG tits.

Posted by: Wickecpinto on March 14, 2007 12:25 AM

I think im just burnt out on porn. Ive seen it all. Every fucking bit of it. There isnt anything out there freaky enough to even get my attention anymore.

Hopefully there are a team of german scientists/whores working on something so freaky and depraved it can even strike the fancy of my jaded and increasingly cynical penis. Cause frankly he is in a malaise. Im talkin third year of the Carte radministration level malaise here.

Posted by: hgfhgfj on March 14, 2007 12:33 AM

Everybody under the age of 30 is a fucking moron. What kind of jackanape thinks the world would be a better place if he put all of his non-rhyming, unrhythmic poetry and cogent observations about Fiona Apple on a website?

Posted by: IlliniGuy on March 14, 2007 12:40 AM

hgfhgfj, what you need to do is turn off that computer, turn down the lights, close your eyes, and imagine your old pal Sandy whispering in your ear, saying "Come on, Toshi, come on!"

Posted by: sandy burger on March 14, 2007 12:45 AM

Hopefully there are a team of german scientists/whores working on something so freaky and depraved it can even strike the fancy of my jaded and increasingly cynical penis.

What, ya want links?

Posted by: richard mcenroe on March 14, 2007 12:52 AM

I also used to post on that "Autoadmit" board referenced in the article back in its early days (when it was on PR). It was a cesspool of hilarity then, amazing its gotten this mainstream.

Posted by: corn on March 14, 2007 12:59 AM

All right, all right, you bastards wore me down.

I'm really Dick Cheney.

Damn.  The things you guys have said about me.  Damn.







Posted by: JayC on March 14, 2007 01:17 AM

On that last point, I find it useful to let the lefty accuse me of being uptight and anti-sex, then drolly point out that porn is not sex.

This usually comes as a revelation to them.

Posted by: Rittenhouse on March 14, 2007 06:35 AM

This is why I don't post any of my hot hobo bondage pics. People might interpret them incorrectly.

Posted by: Purple Avenger on March 14, 2007 06:36 AM

For years I've operated online through pseudonyms -- it's much safer because employers generally don't ask "What name do you blog under?" as part of the interviewing process. A search of my real name only turns up hits for some geologist in Australia.

Why would anyone get a Facebook account? Why would anyone get a MySpace with a last name attached?

In seminary now, I live as though my every move is watched by all. A member of my Board of Ordained Ministry reads my blog every day. A creepy guy from one of my churches rips into me whenever I make an error (in his opinion). My rule: assume that everyone reads your stuff online.

Bragging about one's sexual prowess online? That's just begging for trouble. People search for names on Google; be prepared for it. When I first started dating my wife, my future mother-in-law searched my name under Google. But because I had scrupulously kept my name of the Net, it came up blank. A weeks ago, my wife started a new job. She found that on one computer, someone had been seaching Google for her name and mine.

Just live as though everyone is out to getcha, and you'll be fine. Write as though you will be deliberately misinterpreted and taken out of context.

Posted by: John on March 14, 2007 07:24 AM

Bill from INDC should talk about stalking. A few years ago, a group of people who post on a forum I used to run got really teed off about him deleting comments, so they flamed his comments incessantly. He emails me, the site owner, pretends to be a client wanting work done, gets our work number, one of our designer's real name and physical address (to "send us some materials to scan") and starts harrassing me and my coworkers by phone about people from our forum. One of told him he was a wacko and he had a conniption fit over the phone and threatened legal action. My boss told him he was probably liable for fraud and internet stalking so fuck off and he finally did.

There's a vast difference from people spamming your comments to using deception to get people's real life names, addresses and Phone numbers and that is exactly what "Bill" did.

Just pot and kettle there, huh Bill, or is the reason you are so secretive because you are such a wack-job and it takes a stalker to know one?

Posted by: darcy_lane on March 14, 2007 07:24 AM

PS he also shared the personal info with another site that our forum members had a "flame war" with and then THEY threatened to go public with our personal info unless we controlled our forum members. Yeah, like Ace could do that if all you guys decided to flame on someone that slammed AOS. I've seen Charles at LGF _encourage_ his people to email spam and comment spam people. I don't consider him responsible for what they say or deserving of having his privacy invaded.

Bill from INDC is a jerk and a hypocrite and a creepy stalker.

Posted by: darcy_lane on March 14, 2007 07:28 AM

I google myself from time to time - there aren't many results on my name, and almost all the links are to websites of mine (or related to my old schools). And the stuff they bring up: total geekitude. So no problem there.

Still, I wonder if I'll get questions about being a Presbytyrian minister or a Toronto marathoner ("Why did you stop running marathons?") who also own my name.

Posted by: meep on March 14, 2007 07:48 AM

The whole MySpace/Facebook thing cracks me up.  Back in the lden days, we were told that the beauty of the Internet was its anonimity.  You honestly didn't know if you were chatting with a dog or a person.  People could fel free to express themselves.


Somehow, that mutated into these social networking pages were every shred of anonimity is gone.  not only do people know who anyone is, but they also know where they live and what their favorite sexual position is.


My advice is that, if you don't wnat people to know that you are a strak, raving lunatic, don't write about it online and if you must write about it, sure as hell don't use your real name.  Use sprurwing plover.

Posted by: Steve L. on March 14, 2007 08:53 AM

I made the mistake of going to MySpace and typing in the name of my son's middle school and high school.


My immediate reaction was 'kids these days have no sense of operational security or field craft'.  Private information was 'out there', a good chunk of it was in the comments section. 


My second reaction was 'I'm so glad I have sons and not daughters.'


 

Posted by: BumperStickerist on March 14, 2007 09:07 AM

The "hypocrite on sex" thing is great. Because I believe in moral boundries for sex I am a prude. But then I have a bunch of kids so I am a sex feind. To leftist holding two opposite beliefs at the same time is the height of genius.

Posted by: captkidsney on March 14, 2007 09:10 AM

You didn't expect a woman from Tennessee to have a drawl?

Posted by: rightwingprof on March 14, 2007 09:12 AM

So Slublog, have you submitted all of us on Faces from Ace's to Am I Hot or Not yet? Uh, can I put in a better picture before you do that?

Posted by: pajama momma on March 14, 2007 09:52 AM

I feel Pretty.
Google me.

Posted by: Retired Geezer on March 14, 2007 10:21 AM

My SSN is 697-63-3852


was that out loud?

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on March 14, 2007 10:48 AM

My SSN is 697-63-3852


was that out loud?


I didn't hear a thing, what are you talking about?

Posted by: pajama momma on March 14, 2007 11:02 AM

The whole MySpace/Facebook thing cracks me up. Back in the lden days, we were told that the beauty of the Internet was its anonimity. You honestly didn't know if you were chatting with a dog or a person. People could fel free to express themselves.

And we were also told about the transigence of the Internet. Back in library school, the old-timers decried the Internet as temporary and fragile -- it lacked the permanence of a printed book. Now we learn how false that image really is. The world of pixels and bytes ironically lasts forever.

Posted by: John on March 14, 2007 11:03 AM

My SSN is 697-63-3852

Me too. We should get together some time.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream on March 14, 2007 11:19 AM

I proactively develop synergies across alcoholic rage and racial epithet platforms. I leverage multi-media opportunities to expose myself to litigious female coworkers. I relentlessly pursue excellence in defrauding my employer.

KEYWORDS: EMPEROR OF ICECREAM RESUME

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream on March 14, 2007 11:23 AM

A buddy of mine who has a very funny blog made up a quote from me with my real name and real company and position. I never thought a thing of it, but a neighbor of mine was Googling a bunch of us up, I guess, and told me,"You have some very funny friends, or else you are a knucklehead!"

Turns out the piece was reprinted all over the Intratubes and when you Google me it pops up about every other hit. I guess if I had any career aspirations I'd be mildly concerned, but then I think it might be good for me to be known to have funny friends.

I have been bad about using Bills last name here. Word to the wise is sufficient.

Posted by: spongeworthy on March 14, 2007 11:24 AM

I am Sparticus!

Posted by: 697-63-3852 on March 14, 2007 11:25 AM

I'm pretty lucky in that I share a name with a relatively famous dead person (we switch off on alternate weeks). Google me and you come up with lots of 20th century history and idiot conspiracy theories, almost nothing about me. It's done wonders for my stalking hobby.

Oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that....

Posted by: IllTemperedCur on March 14, 2007 11:25 AM

My real name is Mabel Johnson. I am a sculptor from Oregon.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on March 14, 2007 11:28 AM

darcy lane -

I was getting incessantly comment spammed with bizarre obscenities from a person leaving your site as his personal identification. I tracked the IP to the area that corresponds with your company location, could not stop the spam, and fished you into providing me with your identity.

I then proceeded to send your site two e-mails warning you to cease and desist. Given that the content on your official site was very much in line with the spam I was receiving, I think that my assumptions were not unreasonable. You of course denied that you had any influence over a poster on your board, so I ceased contacting you, as it was futile.

Two relevant points here:

1. I'm uncertain why identity fishing followed by "two cease and desist e-mails" consitutes being a "creepy stalker" in your estimation, in response to obscene comment harrassment by someone identifying as YOU.

2. In response to the harrassment by a member of your forum, you never even bothered to revoke the member's posting privileges in response to that individual claiming to be a part of your site while posting obscenities, or if you did, you never bothered to communicate it to me.

Thus, while web site owners are not responsible for the behavior of their commenters, they do have explicit control and responsibility for policing their own commenting accounts.

And in this respect, you failed.

I have a copy of all communications, if you're interested to revisit the events in detail.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 11:51 AM

My real name is Pocahontas. I'm a male nude model for an artists colony in Poughkeepsie.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream on March 14, 2007 12:46 PM

Well, you spelled Poughkeepsie correctly so I'm gonna go have to assume you're not from there.


 


 


 

Posted by: Veeshir on March 14, 2007 01:03 PM

Hmmmm. I dunno about you guys, but if I do an internet search on a girl and find she's a total hose bag she goes to the front of the line.

Posted by: Eric on March 14, 2007 01:44 PM

I would not hit that.

Posted by: TallDave on March 14, 2007 02:52 PM

revoke their posting privs? So now we are supposed to ban people from our forum based on whatever they do elsewhere in the internet universe?

If you are so tech-simple you can't handle spam, you shouldn't be running a site. Next, I have no idea about 'the spam was in line with your content"= you just said is was obscenities. So obcenities or spam, or both?

The POINT here is YOU 'fished' to get real life addresses, names, phone numbers etc. to harass members of a website because someone who had registered on our forum had spammed you. You then shared that info with other parties (we heard all about it, from them). You also used that info to harass the people in question (one of them the guy I with whom I live), threatening to put in in public places so that said people, who were blameless in the "spam" (a very trivial excuse to begin with) would have their 'net rep damaged or be harassed.

It just seemed very ironic AOS would mention _you_ as one so secretive of his personal identity, when you are so devious about first aquiring, then disseminating, other people's personal info.

Of course, the 2 are probably not unrelated. Creepy internet stalkers know the dangers of creepy internet stalkers best of all I guess.

"Fishing" is what you call it, you lied, you made a false representation of yourself as one who wanted to do business, to get personal details, phone numbers and physical addresses so you could use said info to threaten and cause harassment to people you had ZERO proof were doing you any harm, and even that "harm": i.e. comment spam, was pretty small potatoes.


Spin it how you like, you are by your own admission a liar, a fraud, a harasser, blackmailer and stalker.

That would be like someone getting a hold of you with an offer about your reporting, getting this personal info you so assiduously shield and using it against you or to defame you because they didn't like your writing.

Ace of Space would probably be the first to say, he would not want to defend himself about everything done by every single member who posts on this forum. That's ridiculous. You sir, are a hypocrite and a liar.

Have a nice day.

Posted by: darcy_lane on March 14, 2007 04:54 PM

above comment in response to Bill INDC btw

Posted by: darcy_lane on March 14, 2007 04:57 PM

darcy lane -

revoke their posting privs? So now we are supposed to ban people from our forum based on whatever they do elsewhere in the internet universe?

Based on the individual in question assuming the identity of your site and harrassing not one but several popular web sites with obscene postings, it would be in your best interest to ban them from membership and affiliation with your site. The fact that you did not is not only odd, it's suspicious.

If you are so tech-simple you can't handle spam, you shouldn't be running a site. Next, I have no idea about 'the spam was in line with your content"= you just said is was obscenities. So obcenities or spam, or both?

I don't understand most of this portion of your comment - it was obscene unsolicited comments, aka spam. The content on your site was teen oriented and bizarre, and my personal judgment was that it was very similar. As far as "tech simple," my software would not police the rotating IP address so I had to start comment registration to stop this one persistent individual from bombing every single one of my threads with comments.

The POINT here is YOU 'fished' to get real life addresses, names, phone numbers etc. to harass members of a website because someone who had registered on our forum had spammed you.

No, the point here is that the individual identified himself as a representative of YOUR web site, which suspiciously lacked any identifiable information. Fishing your identity, was a reasonable response. I did not publish the identity or otherwise contact you beyond TWO e-mails. The information was shared when another popular blog started getting harrassed by the same individual, again identifying as part of your web site.

Not as a "commenter," but as your web site was his web site.

What the other blogger did with that information is their responsibility.

You also used that info to harass the people in question (one of them the guy I with whom I live), threatening to put in in public places so that said people, who were blameless in the "spam" (a very trivial excuse to begin with) would have their 'net rep damaged or be harassed.

I did not threaten harrassment. I threatened - based on the assumption that the site was indeed the source of the spam - to associate the site and individual with said spamming behavior.

In the end, I did not, because I could not prove it. Thus, aside from a couple of e-mails, your reputation and/or peace of mind has not been disturbed, until you chose to not extend the same courtesy to me here in this thread by leveling defamatory accusations about my behavior, using terms like "stalker," "creepy," etc.

Again this is bizarre, as the entire exchange was two cease-and-desist e-mails and I never publicly used your info, merely obtaining it to contact you on equal terms.

It just seemed very ironic AOS would mention _you_ as one so secretive of his personal identity, when you are so devious about first aquiring, then disseminating, other people's personal info.

I am not at all secretive of my personal identity, given that it is public by my choice. I am properly responsive to my reputation being attacked by those who use the anonymity of the internet to defame me.

How I obtained your information - legally - is inconsequential. How I used it is not. And the reality is, I did not publicly use it.

Fishing was used to obtain the information before anonymity would protect the identity of my harrasser.

That would be like someone getting a hold of you with an offer about your reporting, getting this personal info you so assiduously shield and using it against you or to defame you because they didn't like your writing.

FYI 1 - fishing is a common reporting tactic used with cagey subjects.

FYI 2 - I did not use your information publicly so your example is bizarrely unrelated. I obtained your identity to communicate with you on equal terms, as my identity is public and I was being harrassed. again, harrased by a harrasser who I assumed was YOU, given that they claimed affiliation with your site.

Spin it how you like, you are by your own admission a liar, a fraud, a harasser, blackmailer and stalker.

You are libeling me here and I'm going to publicly and quite legally caution you that further comments will be considered legally actionable.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 05:18 PM

I'm sure you'll interpret that as a "blackmailing threat," but it is perfectly legal recourse to the course of action that you've decided to take today.

I'd ask you to please choose your words wisely or otherwise contact me privately to resolve any ongoing issues you have. Again, if you would like to review the documentation of our previous exchanges, I have them. Let me know.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 05:26 PM

Bill, I heard you on the radio up here in Boston a couple of weeks ago. Good job.

Posted by: Bart on March 14, 2007 05:30 PM

knock it off. continue on your own forum or blog.

Posted by: ace on March 14, 2007 05:32 PM

Thanks Bart.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 05:36 PM

Look out Ace - Bill might take you fishing or something.


I have no idea what those two are talking about.

How many freakin Wide receivers are the Pats gonna hire thies offseason?

Posted by: fdhgfh657 on March 14, 2007 05:37 PM

bill: fishing is a tool used by reporters to find out personal info:

yeah and by childmolesters, scammers, extortionists etc.

Posted by: stantheman on March 14, 2007 06:22 PM

bill: fishing is a tool used by reporters to find out personal info:

yeah and by childmolesters, scammers, extortionists etc.

Well, I'm all ears about your recommendation on a course of action when someone anonymous starts harassing you every day for several weeks with obscenities and you'd like to know their real identity.

And in the case of reporters, it's a method for how they conduct investigative journalism with targets that are averse to candor, when said subjects are engaging in illegal or unethical acts. It's like and often involves a hidden camera.

As with many things, the technique is dependent on intent and specific use for whether it is ethical or not.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 06:38 PM

What is going on up there?  Why do I feel like I walked in on something.

Posted by: monica on March 14, 2007 06:42 PM

Well I'm not in on it Bill, but what I WOULDNT do is fraudilently get someone's personal info then as you even admit share it with others when you also admit you dont even know if that was the right person. Its a big net and thats crazy to harass an owner of a site because someone who comments on their forum starts commenting on yourse plus, spam is usually ads and commercials, what you are describing is not spam Don't you have a comment filter?seems like you way overreacted here and I agree itsnot right to spread around someones peronal info

Posted by: Ben Taylor on March 14, 2007 07:01 PM

Ben Taylor -

Its a big net and thats crazy to harass an owner of a site because someone who comments on their forum starts commenting on yourse

That judgment makes the assumption that it's known.

Here's what you are either missing or skipping over: if someone comments as "ben taylor" it's a natural to assume the commenter is "ben taylor," not a commenter on Ben Taylor's web site.

The spammer in question identified AS THE WEB SITE. The content of the comments was similar to the content of the main page of the web site.

To this minute, I am not convinced that the lady I'm having a disagreement with or her roommate who ran the web site were not the spammers in question. The whole thing is odd, that someone would a. assume their identity and b. spend so much time essentially advertising the content of their site with comments similar to what the site itself features.

As I could not prove any of these suspicions, I kept them to myself. The information was only shared when a conservative a-list poliblog complained of being harassed by the same site and solicited help.

Not a commenter on the site, but the site itself. It was his assumption as well.

Hope that clarifies.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 07:21 PM

Didn't Ace say take it to your own blog Bill?


Jesus I don't see you so much a stalker as a fucking baby.

Posted by: Van Deezil on March 14, 2007 07:50 PM

Didn't Ace say take it to your own blog Bill?

Ace is not policing subsequent comments that continue the issue and request response.

Including yours.

For my part, I'd be ecstatic if the unsolicited and tiresome discussion would end.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 07:58 PM

I dont see anything but you're a last word freak. Go ahead and take it then.

Posted by: Van Deezil on March 14, 2007 08:08 PM

You asked me a question.

I answered.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 08:16 PM

The Last Word?


Im Gay.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 08:25 PM

I'd just like to comment to any reasonable folks reading this blog: someone gets on a public forum, anonymously and directly attacks your reputation, your honesty, ethics, etc., and in the end, you're damned if you defend yourself (no matter how calmly) and you're damned if you ignore it, because the libel stands unopposed.

And in the end, it devolves into identity spoofing above.

I apologize that the thread has been derailed with this tedious, tedious discussion, including my comments.

I felt an obligation to respond to the libel, especially given the topic of the post itself. I'd rather eat glass than spend my time on this, believe me. Regards and goodnight.

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 08:48 PM

FLAMING!

Posted by: Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 08:52 PM

Jesus from Bill INDC, STFU already
you do seem to have some issues

Posted by: NOT Bill from INDC on March 14, 2007 09:24 PM

Dear Bill,

Please reconsider your ban on Michael. He is really a (*crossing fingers*) nice person and I know it would thrill him to no end if you would allow him to comment on your site again. As a side benefit, he is a lawyer, and as a token of his appreciation he may be interested in backing up a few of your empty threats of legal action.

Sincerely,
BrewFan

Posted by: BrewFan on March 14, 2007 09:31 PM

Dear Bill,

Please reconsider your ban on Michael. He is really a (*crossing fingers*) nice person and I know it would thrill him to no end if you would allow him to comment on your site again. As a side benefit, he is a lawyer, and as a token of his appreciation he may be interested in backing up a few of your empty threats of legal action.

Sincerely,

Deb Frisch

Posted by: Deb Frisch on March 14, 2007 09:44 PM

Wow Brew,


You've been Frisched.


 

Posted by: mesablue on March 14, 2007 10:58 PM

By Bill -- J7M2/

Posted by: mesablue on March 14, 2007 11:00 PM
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