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Gun Thread: Mostly 2023 NoVAMoMe Discussion & Analysis Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Atomic Shitballs! Another wildly successful NoVAMoMe in the books! For those really, really smart people who elected to attend this year, please feel free to share your NoVAMoMe experience in the comments below. If you had a good time, and let's face it, who could have possibly not had a good time, your comments and sharing of your personal NoVAMoMe 'journey' and experience might just encourage the shy lurkers out there to decide 2024 will be the year they throw off the chains of lurkerdom and come out of hiding!

Bigly congratulations to Jinx the Cat who not only won the Dream Date With Weasel (D2W2) but also managed to win the entire MoMe Grand Prize trophy!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

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I lied. Not so fast on the gun stuff. There are some more things related to the 2023 NoVAMoMe to cover. Much more.

There are several people we need to thank. I am always hesitant to do this because I will almost certainly leave out someone, or a number of someone's who deserve recognition, but in no particular order, here goes.

First, Ben Had for purchasing everyone's first raffle ticket. If you aren't a Texas MoMe regular, you owe it to yourself to become one so you can witness Ben Had's generosity first hand. The dates have been set for the TXMoMe and info can be found on the main page, left sidebar. More to come on this in the coming weeks. Thanks BH!!

Next, Muad'dib for providing a big box o' prizes for the event to include very nice personalized AoS insulated drinkware, several bottles of handcrafted maple syrup, and the world famous NOOD coffee mugs. Muad'dib has been supporting the NoVAMoMe for a number of years and his generosity is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Next, our pal Jewells45 who every year sends several items of handmade jewelry which are always a crowd favorite. This year, and entirely by complete coincidence and absolutely in no way related to the fact I was calling out the raffle ticket numbers, WeaselWoman had one of the first winning tickets and opted for a really nice bracelet! Thanks Jewells!

Next, our pal Blake who each year sends us several handmade kitchen cutting boards (and conditioner!) for the prize table. These are super-extra very nice, always a yuuuuge hit and are highly coveted by the attendees. In fact, the lucky winners face the angry scorn of the disappointed and less fortunate in the crowd as they return to their seats. Thank you, Blake!!

Next, all of the nice and helpful people who volunteer to help with greeting arrivals and raffle ticket sales. We couldn't possibly do this without you, and we really appreciate all of your help!

Now allow me to thank my pal and bestest blog-buddy and NoVAMoMe co-conspirator, bluebell for all of her hard work with organization, planning, general niceness and amazing attention to detail. Most of all, thanks for just being such a good friend. The NoVAMoMe would not be the success I think it is without bluebell's involvement. No kidding.

Lastly but no ways leastly, a sincere and heartfelt thank you to all those who attended. You people make this whole place and our all too infrequent get-togethers such a very special thing.

So please share your comments on the event. Did you have fun? Please tell us about your experience in the hope it will convince others to come to our get-togethers in the future. Was this your first MoMe? If so, was it what you expected? What did you like the most? Just meeting your fellow morons, or something else? How about the band? Did you enjoy them as much as I did? Any suggestions for the NoVAMoMe Steering Committee?

Please let us know what you think!

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OK - now we get to a little shooting content!

We've recently been talking about shooting longer distances so I thought it's be a good time to revisit some content on the subject of atmospheric conditions and the impact it has on ballistic solutions. The concept we'll be discussing is Density Altitude, what it is, how we measure it and put it to use.

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From the 5/30/21 Gun Thread
Range Data
An interesting discussion came up in the comments last week, and that's how the zero of a rifle changes with atmospheric conditions. Nothing has changed inside the gun or with the ammunition, but rather the ballistic arc of the bullet is being influenced by changes in air density. Shooters will notice this effect particularly when traveling from one place to another, but simple changes in local weather will cause it to one degree or another, too. What atmospheric conditions affect air density? Air temperature, barometric pressure, elevation, and relative humidity.

You will recall that zeroing a rifle is making adjustments to the sights so the bullet impact at a fixed distance is exactly matched to the sights, or scope crosshair when using optics. Most shooters zero their rifles at 100 yards to make the math easy, or some other fixed distance that is suited to their shooting application. This zero is only valid under the exact atmospheric conditions that existed at the time the zeroing was performed, and with the exact same ammo. Change the air density, and the impact will be high or low, because the bullet is flying through thicker or thinner air. At closer distances of a few hundred yards with smaller air density changes the effect is usually negligible. However, at longer range and with large air density changes the effect can be significant at the target. Everyone is used to adding elevation to a sight or scope to account for shooting at greater distances, but as the zero changes the amount of elevation needed for the ballistic arc of the bullet to match the sights, changes too.

A change in ammunition will affect the point of impact in much the same way, only this time velocity changes take the place of air density changes.

Ballistics and Atmospheric Conditions Affecting Bullet Flight
If you know the weight of the projectile and its velocity leaving the barrel, and certain atmospheric conditions affecting air density then you can compute a firing solution. Most generic range cards use a "standard" atmosphere, from which there are several to choose. I use the ICAO atmospheric model, which is; air temp 59 F, air pressure 29.92 Hg, elevation of 0' or sea level and 78% relative humidity. But what if you're not shooting in precisely these conditions? What if you take a trip from your home range near the beach and go hunting in the Colorado mountains?

Since it's cumbersome to record and use all of that data, it can be combined into the single reference value Density Altitude (or DA) which is simply expressed as a variation in altitude to the standard column of air at sea level. If you have been faithfully recording data in a little notebook every time you shoot, you should have been including the DA, range to target, and the necessary elevation in MOA or mils for future reference.

Density Altitude is published for local airports, and many online calculation tools exist, but you need data in real time as the DA changes throughout the day. If you're interested in this level of precision, I strongly recommend investing in a Kestrel Meter a compact weather instrument with an anemometer and which calculates DA based on your current conditions at the range.

If you have been recording your data, all you need to do is look in your data book and find the last time you shot at the same distance with the same rifle and ammo, and dial the same elevation based on DA. It doesn't matter where on the planet you observed the data, if accurately measured, it will still be valid. If you are diligent, over time you will record enough data to cover most shooting situations. I made it a habit to note my scope elevation at the end of every match and record it with the current DA as soon as I came off the line, and kept the notebook in my range bag. Next time, I'd measure the current DA and look up the required elevation for that condition in my notebook.

A number of good ballistic computers are available to assist the shooter. Ballistic is the app I use on my smartphone. I believe the Standard Edition is still free and includes an exhaustive bullet library for reloaders. It also allows you to input atmospheric conditions, among other variables, to customize the firing solutions to your present conditions. It's a very slick product and bigly useful, just never use an electronic device on the firing line in a match. I prefer my little notebook as it's absolutely accurate based on my rifle and ammunition, and it's much easier to measure the DA and find the corresponding recorded reference value instead of fiddling around with the phone.

Try it and let me know what you think!

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Wuuut? Need more on Density Altitude? It's so important that I've written about it at least twice!

From the July 10, 2022 GT:

Over the last few weeks, we have talked a bit about elevation and windage in long distance shooting, and I have mentioned it's a good idea to keep notes on previous outings handy along with your rifle. Are you keeping notes? If not, why not? If you aren't recording data each and every time you go out, you are missing a really valuable opportunity to gather important information.

What sort of data am I talking about? Well, it can be anything really. Phone numbers of the hot range babes, weather information, lottery numbers, poetry, and oh I don't know, how about range to target and elevation? Let's review some basics.

The most significant factors determining a bullet's ballistic arc are velocity, bullet weight, and atmospheric conditions, and every pairing of rifle A and ammo B are going to produce different results. Period. Sometimes by a little and sometimes by a lot. You might not notice a big difference at 100 yards, but it will begin to make a difference as you move farther out. By 300 yards or so the differences will become so pronounced you might be missing the target altogether. As long as you are shooting the same rifle and the same ammo, and practicing sound fundamentals, the rest is simply a math problem.

And I mean exactly the same rifle and ammo. If your buddy has scored a killer deal on surplus Czechoslovakian factory-second ammo, and wants you to try it, you're going to need to establish a zero first. There is no getting around this if you want to move from 100 yards to 200 yards and so forth out to say 500 yards and accomplish much besides wasting time.

Repeat after Weasel: Every time you change ammunition you need to re-zero your rifle if you plan on engaging more distant targets with any degree of success.

Begin each range session by checking your point of impact at the same distance which you zeroed the rifle and ammo originally. If the bore is clean, disregard the first couple of rounds as they will perform differently as the barrel becomes fouled. Why do this? Aren't the rifle and the ammo the same? Yes, but something else has more than likely changed, and that is the weather. Yep, atmospheric conditions play a part in the bullet's performance in as little as a few hundred yards. You may have been shooting out the center of the target last week, but today everything is going low by let's say an inch, and that one inch at 100 yards will become over five inches at 500 yds. By confirming your data at the same 100 yards, you can make adjustments to the zero before everything becomes a train wreck at 500 yards. By eliminating the atmospheric component first, you don't have to worry (much) about it later. With me so far?

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to take some of the work out of the process and get started sooner on impressing range babes? Well, there is, and this is where you range notes become useful. Say you take your favorite rifle and ammo to the range for an afternoon of shooting at distances out to 500 yards. You checked the zero at 100 yds and made the necessary adjustments, and now your buddy wants to go out to 300 yards. Let's go Hombre!

Except you don't know what to do with the little up/down and right/left knobs on the scope. Look at your damn notes! The last time you were shooting that gun and that ammo at 300 yds, you recorded 300/4.25 in your little notebook, and since atmospherics have now largely been removed from the list of variables (by re-zeroing), you dial up 4.25 MOA, take the shot and clang the target! Woo-hoo! You thump your chest triumphantly and begin your happy dance behind the line. Want to go out to 500 yds? No problemo! Check your little notebook and find 500/11.0, dial up to 11.0 MOA and make that target look stupid too!

Beginning to see the value of range data?

Q: Weasel, what if I am unable to check my zero and really, really need to hit a 500-yard target on my first shot?
A: You're screwed.

Yep. I mean, you can try dialing up the 11 MOA, but chances are you're wasting ammo, and unless you are shooting into a large earthen berm you probably will not have a clue where the bullet is going. That's about the time you begin to spaz out and try to solve the problem with a large volume of essentially undirected fire, as the hot range babe looks at you with pity and disgust and begins packing her shit to get away from the pathetic spectacle you have become.

Geez - too bad there isn't a way to incorporate atmospheric data as part of your range data too. You know, somebody really should invent that.

Well, you're in luck. Airplane pilots and race car drivers, as well as shooters, also need a way to quantify and summarize changes in atmospheric conditions. The result is a measurement known as "Density Altitude" or DA, which affects things like the lift of a wing and the performance of an engine, as well as ballistics. Density Altitude is simply an expression of four measurable local elements; elevation, air temperature, atmospheric pressure and humidity, compared to those of a standard atmosphere. These are the factors that make the atmosphere more or less dense and change the performance characteristics of your bullet.

There is a nifty little device which I have recommended here approximately 74,218.3 times made by a company called Kestrel. The basic 5000 series will measure DA and there are even models with ballistic functions.

Good News: With their Series 5000 models and up, you can measure density altitude whenever and wherever you like.
Bad News: The Series 5000 models begin at $269.
Badder News: The 5700 models with ballistic calculators start at $400.

So now you're back at the range and the hot range babe hasn't left yet. Mom gave you a Kestrel for your birthday, in the hope you will one day get married and move out of the basement, and you have been recording DA along with range to target and elevation data for a couple of months. All you need to do then is to find a previous measurement close to your current conditions and you have your elevation data, and with that, you stand a fairly good chance at a first round hit on a 500-yard target.

Is that important to you? Is it worth $300, $400 or more? Well, it depends on how interested you are in making a first-round hit. You might not be interested in making that investment, and that's OK. Not everyone wants or needs that level of precision, but it's nice to know the options exist. Every single time you shoot your rifle, note the ammo used, distance to target, elevation data and density altitude if you are able.

I always recommend, insist really, that shooters have a good working knowledge of ballistics and be able to engage targets based on data collected from previous engagements. All the earlier stuff is related to elevation only with no mention of windage (yet), where a different set of processes exist in terms of estimating wind speed and direction and converting those to a firing solution. These are things you really need to be able to do quickly in your head and without using an app or other ballistic aid to come up with the correct answers. Conditions change constantly and you simply cannot spend precious time fumbling around with gear to compute the effect of wind. When I am spotting for a shooter, I tell them if they have not taken the shot within three seconds of my wind call not to bother pulling the trigger because I need to re-compute the firing solution. Having help is fine, but there may come a day when you want or need to take an important shot quickly.

Questions? Ask away in the comments or drop me a line.

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Kool Korner
I never get tired of watching SpaceX boosters land. So cool. Here is tracking footage of a Falcon 9 first stage landing back on the Planet of the Earth.

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Let's say you're wandering around one day and find yourself at the wheel of a Model T. Here's how you drive it. Thank me later.

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Musical Interlude
Muddy Waters and Got my Mojo Workin'

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Gun Basics 101
New video from the She Equips Herself gal! This week SEH gal shares lessons learned from 8 years of gun-carrying.

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Armed Attorneys
Here is a short video on funny signs and 2A shirts. Good idea or not?

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Cigar of the Week

This week we feature the Trinidad 50 Aniversario Humidor These cigars are a little pricey at $420,000 for 50, or $8,400/each but hey, you get a really cool looking humidor and free shipping! I realize this may seem, well, a little bit excessive but I'm betting they're really nice! Don't all of you jump on the opportunity at once. Perhaps 50 of you can go in on one together and then later fight over the box.

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Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

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Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo NEW!

***Mail Bag***

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal That SOB Van Owen. Great one!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?