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Food Thread: Hunk-O-Beef (At Least It Looks Like Beef!) Edition | Main | Sunday Overnight Open Thread (12/18/22)
December 18, 2022

Gun Thread: Pre-Christmas Edition!

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Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! More December! In fact, it's time for our festive and joyous Annual Pre-Christmas Gun Thread! Woo Hoo!

Welp, your ol' pal Weasel didn't make it to the farm-o, and if the weather forecast is to be believed, we may be in for a white Christmas this year in the mid-Atlantic states. I have to say I stopped enjoying snow about the time I got a job and had to start driving in the stuff to get to the office. It's not me, of course. Weasel is an excellent driver. It's everyone else. Living just outside of D.C., most of the people here are from other places who have at best a fleeting acquaintance with driving in wintery conditions. In fact, many subscribe to the snow & ice driving technique of clearing two little eye holes on the windshield, and alternately flooring the accelerator and slamming on the brakes while spinning the steering wheel to and fro with abandon. How about all y'all? Will there be snow for Christmas where you are?

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?


Seven More Days!
With the Big Day coming up fast, it's time to start thinking about the receiving of gifts which, when you get right down to it, is the true joy of Christmas. More stuff! Speaking of techniques, is there anything worse than a person who takes 45 minutes to unwrap a gift? Is this you? I'm talking about the person who reads the entire card twice and clutches it to their bosom as they are overcome with emotion, then proceeds to admire and comment on the delightful wrapping paper and bow, before finally beginning to surgically unwrap the item in an effort to keep the paper and ribbon completely intact. Eventually they get to whatever the gift is and more discussion and outpouring of emotion ensues.

Gotta say, these people bug the hell out of me.

Rip that sum'bitch open! That's right people, go at that thing like a boll weevil on a cotton ball! Have a sharp knife or scissors handy to cut through ribbon on something from the inconsiderate types who like to wrap a box like they are tying down a bulldozer for transport on a flatbed trailer. What extreme conditions was the wrapper-person expecting the package to encounter on its way to you? Ridiculous.


Do you make a Christmas list? Is there gun stuff on it? There are lots of potential gun related items a gun enthusiast might receive, an often overlooked benefit of becoming a shooter. Ammo, targets, gun cleaning stuff, hearing and eye protection, optics... the list is long and varied! An entirely new world of gift receiving potential opens before you when you take up the hobby. What's on your list this Christmas?

Merry Christmas to you all!


Guns of the Horde
First up, our pal Ed L shares the details of a recent acquisition, a Brugger and Thomet (B&T) Station Six!

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The Brugger and Thomet (B&T) Station Six is bolt-action 9mm pistol that uses 9mm 1911 magazines. It has a 1.5 inch barrel that has 1/2 by 28 threads for a suppressor, which is the more interesting part of this pistol. B&T essentially copied the old WWII Welrod pistol's action and built it to Swiss standards. The history of the Welrod itself is shrouded in the mists of secrecy, even though it saw use throughout the Cold War and into Operation Desert Storm. Since few Welrods exist in the collector market, this is the closest you can get to a real Welrod today.

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B&T has two suppressors for the Station Six. Shown attached to the pistol is the "training" suppressor. This suppressor uses modern baffles inside the can. The "operational" suppressor uses wipes like its WWII ancestor. The photo shows how the wipes are stacked inside the suppressor, with one wipe lying face up to show the wipe itself. Although all reports say that this can is significantly quieter than the baffled "training" suppressor, the problem is that the wipes are only good for about ten shots before performance begins to degrade. This is because the bullets pass through the wipes themselves, which eventually destroys the wipes. Because ATF deems the wipes as suppressor parts, replacing the wipes means sending the suppressor back to B&T (or least a Class III dealer) for servicing. This problem doesn't exist for the "training" suppressor. If you decide to buy this pistol, you'll definitely want to pay the extra $400 for the "training" suppressor. The pistol comes with the wipe suppressor. The Swiss don't make cheap junky pistols either, so buying this will set you back about $3k (including the "training" suppressor).

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The photo shows the results of target practice at 7 yards using the "training" suppressor. Ammunition is Federal Syntech 150 grain 9mm subsonic. The sights are Glock pattern sights. The pistol prints a bit low and to the right. The bullseye hits are after applying some Kentucky windage after the first two groups. This pistol has a couple of downsides. The shooter must fully depress the grip safety in order to work the bolt after firing. The pistol's ergonomics make this "feel" for the grip safety difficult. The magazine feed tends to misfeed if more than one round is loaded in the magazine. Working the bolt doesn't spit out the used casing. Instead, it merely dislodges the casing so you can catch it in your other hand after inverting the pistol (like the Welrod). This isn't a practical pistol for carry. It's a cool range toy that gives you the closest thing you can get to the Welrod experience; the quietest pistol you can get. The baffled suppressor reduces the noise from the 9mm to that of a .22 because the bolt action doesn't move when you shoot. On an indoor range, the noise from other shooters easily drowns out the sound from the Station Six IF you use subsonic ammo.

Nice, Ed L! Very cool and interesting weapon, and great range report and shooting. Thank you!


Next up, our pal Croak has been to the range with a new Walther!

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10 yards, first time firing it, 124gr FMJ S&B and AAC ammo.

Just picked up my first Walther, a 4.5" PDP Pro SD. Sad I waited so long to try out a modern Walther. It's amazing.

250+ rounds yesterday, only problem was a single FTF using a 20rd Canik TP9 magazine (waiting on more OEM MecGar PDP mags). Did I mention the PDP is amazing? I usually have to concentrate on trigger control to avoid low left groups. Not a problem with the Walther, it just puts rounds where I want to send it.

I've been a P320 owner for years now and owned a P250 too, back in the day, with well over 10k rounds through various models. No issues. I strongly suspect that the discharges hitting the news are negligence, but it's easier to blame SIG than admit a mistake.

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An X-Compact RXP, 3.6" slide, 15rd grip has been my appendix EDC for the past couple years and recently replaced with an X-Macro, that's a story for another day. My favorite duty-sized shooter has been a P320 X-Carry with compensator and AXG grip module. That was, until the PDP came into my life. Now it's my second favorite. The P320 is also a fun system to tinker with, I have a couple gimmick guns that are really quite functional, useful, and fun.

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Wow Croak, thank you! I'm a big fan of Sig Sauer, but I have to say the Walther sure does look nice and clearly shoots well. Congratulations!


More Tested to Failure!

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Next up, our pal blaster has broken another 3D printed gun.

Recorded actual round count this time.

- 50 rounds of 115 grain Federal white box with two failures to fire - I blame the ammo as the primers were well impinged.

- 99 rounds of 124 grain AAC (one leapt over the line while loading).

- 147 rounds total.

The result looks familiar.

The crack is in the same place. Looking more closely it is directly on a print layer, and it goes from the rear placement pin to the corner of the cutout for the mag retainer. So it's not actually a material issue. This is perhaps best described as a production issue - I have seen some discussion that this frame should be printed at a 15 degree angle v level. But I have also seen discussion that will be weaker. I know how to determine if this is true!

But further discussion on the whole concept. No matter what, this will not end up being just as good as a real Glock. It is not even a good range toy. Even if it were good for a round count of a 1000 it is not something you could count on for a firearm. Yes, it will work. But not for very long. So what is it good for? If you had need of a pistol that no one knew you had purchased and you only needed to shoot it a little bit, this is a great option. The use cases for that seem small. There are some that might say the only one is criminal intent.

That is certainly one use case. That's not why I made one. The frame is called FMDA for Free Men Don't Ask and it represents a principled position on the Second Amendment. And that's probably the best explanation for why I did this. Because I can.

And also only by doing this does it get better. This is the second version of this Glock frame from this designer and it's better than the first one. And it took a while to get the first 3D printed semiautomatic out there. I expect this to get refined to something that is almost as good as a "real" one.

Thanks for the update, blaster! Maybe try a different color? Blue perhaps?


Cry for Help Revisited
Our pal Utah Lurker offers links and suggestions for last week's discussion on sourcing parts for a Enfield No5.

I saw the article and need for parts for the SMLE and recommend Numrich. Another option is to go to the next gun show or shop from a online shop like Royal Tiger Imports to buy a parts gun. I own three SMLE’s and have a parts collection for them to keep them in good shape.

I have done business with Numerich and have always had good luck with them. The gun show idea is a great idea, too. Thanks Utah Lurker!


Our pal 10 Gallon Hat has a training recommendation!

I just read this article on the Casino Drill. I see these targets at the indoor range I go to, but didn't know how they worked. Next range trip I will give it a try.

10GH even provided a video!

I'm not sure I knew how these targets worked either, and have to say it seems like a very good drill as it forces you to stop and think and concentrate as well as perform a couple reloads. Anyone else use these? Thanks 10GH!


More O2 Cylinder Fun!
Last week we had a video of a guy shooting an oxygen cylinder inside of a safe, and the Gun Thread Complaint Department received a bunch of hate emails saying, in a nutshell, that it was stupid and that I was a bad person for including it in the thread.

So this week we have a video of the same guy shooting oxygen and acetylene cylinders! Any more complaints?


Musical Interlude
Here is Phish with an awesome version of Funky Bitch.


Gun Basics 101
Another new video from the She Equips Herself gal! This week's video is the first of SEH Gal's 12 Days of Carry series.


Cigar of the Week

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With Christmas around the corner why don't we take a look at one of Weasel's favorite special occasion cigars, the Habanos Ramon Allones Specially Selected from CigarOne in Geneva, Switzerland. Shipping is fast and discreet and I've never had a problemo with deliveries.

Yep, they're kinda pricey but also pretty much flawless. Regular price under $20 per, but they sometimes fnd their way to the weekly specials page!


Cigar Vixen?
Tragically, I may have to fire Cigar Vixen from the Gun Thread. Evidently her videos are now age restricted and will not embed properly. Until I get it figured out, here's a link to her review of the Punch Diablo. Requires clicking through to YouTube.


Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.
Bobalu Cigar Company

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!


Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

***Mail Bag***

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal JT. Hiya JT! Great one!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

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posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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