Gun Thread: Four Year Anniversary Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Four years! Can you believe we've been doing this for four years now? That's right boys and girls, this is the 208th edition of the Ol' Sunday Gun Thread. Oh, we've laughed, and we've cried, and I think overall we've generally had a good time. I try and say this every week but it is all y'all that make this fun and special and a sure do appreciate you showing up and participating each week. Thank you! By the time you read this I will have wrapped up a trip to the farm and shooting was definitely on the top of the to-do list. Check the comments for some initial reports!

TXMoMe Request: If you are coming to Texas and have a spotting scope, please bring it if you can! Thanks!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

So what bullet did Barney keep in his pocket? Why it's none other than our old friend the .38 Special! Introduced in 1898 to replace the underperforming U.S. Service Cartridge in .38 Long Colt during the Philippine-American War, the .38 Special cartridge was for many years standard issue for military units and law enforcement agencies and to this day remains popular with with recreational shooters.

The name of the cartridge itself is somewhat misleading. With a bullet diameter of .357 inches or just over 9mm, the ".38" refers to the approximate diameter of the loaded cartridge including the case. A favorite of handloaders, a common load sends a 158 gr lead or jacketed bullet towards the target at a muzzle velocity generally under 900 fps, thus falling somewhere between the .380 ACP and 9x19 Para in terms of energy. Higher velocity "+P" loads improve the cartridge terminal ballistic performance, but are not recommended for revolvers not rated for the higher pressures.

Whether using commercial ammunition or target handloads, the .38 is an absolute pleasure to shoot and the mild recoil makes it a great choice for newer shooters developing basic skills and experienced marksmen, alike. The simplicity and safety of revolvers continues to make the .38 Special a popular choice for self defense, as countless gun safes, sock drawers and bedside tables will attest.

Ford vs. Chevrolet
All major manufacturers have at one time or another produced revolvers chambered in .38 Special. By the turn of the 20th century, the already great Colt vs. Smith and Wesson rivalry hit full stride with Double Action/Single Action revolvers and the .38 Special cartridge. Throughout the years, Colt manufactured a variety of models including the Police Positive and Official Police; while Smith & Wesson offered the Military & Police (or M&P, later the Model 10), the K38 (later the Model 15), and others.

1942 Colt Official Police

1948 S&W K38

1977 S&W Model 15

Let's just say that Colt and S&W collectors are enthusiastic about their favorite brand with very elaborate conventions held around the country each year. If you aren't already spending enough time on the internet, both are represented by lively and civilized discussion forums with devoted contributors and are great places to browse and have questions answered.

Colt Collectors Association
Colt Forum
S&W Collectors Association
S&W Forum

So which one did Deputy Fife carry? Apparently both brands saw action in Mayberry. While the publicity photo above appears to show a Colt, it is reported that for some episodes of the Andy Griffith Show a Smith & Wesson was provided by the prop department.

Colt or S&W? Do you have a favorite?

This Old Gun
Firearms manufactured before the advent of computerized machining techniques are of particular interest to me. Made in an era when assembly was performed by an actual gunsmith or other highly experienced craftsmen, in many cases the final result was a hand-fitted weapon which could arguably be considered a custom firearm by today's manufacturing and production standards. A big part of the fun in collecting and shooting these old guns, at least for me, is wondering where they have been over the years. A good example is the well used Colt Official Police pictured above. When purchased, I noted "BS Co." engraved on the frame. A little research revealed that BS Company was very likely Bethlehem Steel making it a company guard weapon. I sent to the Colt Archives for more information and learned my revolver was indeed one of a shipment of 25 sent to Bethlehem Steel Company in Lehigh Valley, PA one week after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Just imagine the activity at the steel plant as war was declared!

Send in Your Guns!
Many of you have firearms with a known provenance or even more importantly, a significant family connection. Perhaps a bring-back by a relative from a war, or Granny's shotgun, or a treasured first hunting rifle. If so, and if you care to share your story, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Guns of the Horde
First up, our pal and delightful 'ette Screaming in Digital shares a favorite of hers, a Smith & Wesson Model 52.

The model 52 was designed for target shooting and has a really sweet trigger. I haven't shot this in about a year and wanted to take it to the range Friday night, but I couldn't remember whether Jesse had taken it out of our rotation because something needed fixing, or if we were just shifting more to revolvers and rifles. Anyway, I remember finding it fun and easy to shoot even for a beginner. It feels ever so slightly bigger and heavier than my Rock Island 1911 (and it actually is, according to my googling, at least unloaded), but still very comfortable in my hands. I'd like to try it again with a little more experience under my belt.

Screaming in Digital even found the following excellent video on the Model 52 for your viewing pleasure:

Beautiful pistol, SiD, and great video. Thank you!

Next up, our pal That Deplorable SOB Van Owen shares a real winner!

I'm sending you some pictures of one of my favorite guns, a United States Firearms Manufacturing Company Single Action Army clone in .45 Colt. It's a great shooter and fits the hand remarkably well. It points where you look. The backstory of the USFA company is pretty interesting.

These were manufactured using Colt's own equipment in the "Blue Dome", which was in the East Armory Building of the former Colt Armory complex. Many of the employees were longtime Colt craftsmen. The USFA CEO was somewhat of an eccentric, and although the SAAs were selling very well, He decided to sell off all the SAA tooling and focus on producing a truly atrocious plastic gun called the USFA ZiP .22 - Wikipedia. Once the ZIP turned a profit, he would buy new tooling and start producing SAAs again. The ZIP was a complete failure. The company soon went bankrupt and was dissolved in January 2017 and these replicas, which were rumored to be better than the Colt originals, are no longer being made. The Slim Jim style holster and gun belt are from Cowtown Leather.

That's a beauty TDSOBVO! Thanks for sending it in!

Next up, our pal Beckoning Chasm shares a picture of his Derringer.

This is a photo of my Cobra CB38BB, which is a Derringer, but unlike every other Derringer I've seen, it fires .38 Special instead of .22. Before you ask, no, I've never fired it. I just thought it was pretty cool when I bought it a few years ago.

Very nice Beckoning Chasm! Are you saving it for a card game gone bad?

Finally, but not leastly, our pal Inogame shares a real treasure!

It is a Colt series 70 national match in a display box and with .22 conversion kit. When I saw this for sale I just couldn't talk myself out of it. Even performed my CCW qualification with it. In IL where I was living at the time they tested 30 rounds, ten rounds each at 10 yards, 7 yards and 5 yards (target below). The gun is a bit loose and could use a proper run through, but that is comparing it to my Ted Yost custom 1911... which is not fair. This is still a shooter.

Beautiful pistol and nice shooting, Inogame! Thank you!

33 Days!
The countdown to the TXMoMe continues! That's right, boys and girls, the TXMoMe is a mere 33 days from today, and by now you should be rushing your MoMe attendance plans to completion. There are lots of big doin's in the works and your hosts Rancher Bob, Cow Horse Queen and Ben Had are ready to welcome YOU to the festivities! Have you signed up? Are you on the exclusive guest list, or are you one of the mentally defective people who always finds a reason to make it next year?

PRO TIP: Word has it there may be some, well let's just call them "exotic" weapons, available to shoot in Texas. I don't want to go into a bunch of specifics, but if you like shooting at a high cyclic rate, plan on bringing a box of brass case 9mm ball ammo (example) with you to Texas. Please, NO reloads!

Q: Weasel, what the heck is a "high cyclic rate"?
A: Well, it's faster than a low cyclic rate such as that found on semi-automatic weapons.

Q: Weasel, why do I want to do that?
A: Because it is mucho fun-o, and an opportunity that many of you might not have often.

As long as we're on the subject, if you aren't planning to bring a firearm and ammo, but plan on shooting, please pick up a box or two of ammo in the caliber you like and bring it to Texas. Each year we have lots and lots of guns, and even more shooters, and it's nice have the cost and effort needed to source the ammunition spread around a bit. We want to make the shooting available to as many as possible, and cover those who want to shoot but for whatever reason cannot bring ammo, so every little bit helps. Thank you!

Holy Shitballs, people. Have I not implored and cajoled you enough? Do you require additional imploring and cajoling? I challenge you to find a single person who has attended a TXMoMe and not found it to be a life altering experience. Life altering for the good even! So please quit screwing around and making up reasons not to commit and start planning on getting your ass to Texas in October!

You will see this material again, so for heaven's sake, so do yourself a favor and email Ben Had for details!

This seems like a good time to talk a little bit about the upcoming shooting program at the TXMoMe. What started years ago as an informal plinking session lasting a couple of hours has matured into a full program of shooting activities over two days. I have to thank Ben Had, Cow Horse Queen and RancherBob for allowing the shooting to comprise such a significant portion of the TXMoMe.

For a while I have been conducting a Rifle Clinic on Friday morning followed by range time Friday afternoon and then again well in to Saturday. We have also been steadily refining the handgun portion of the program to now include an IDPA-esque move-and-shoot pistol course designed and run by Ben Had and Nurse R, as well as the usual static pistol range for those who prefer that.

Anyhoo, here's a very rough outline of the schedule of events. Times are tentative and subject to modification/change.

Friday, 10/21
Rifle Program
8am - 10:30am: Rifle Clinic (carport)
11:30am - 1pm: Rifle Clinic, Intro to Wind Estimation (rifle range)
1pm - 4pm: Live fire (rifle range)

Handgun Program
10:30am - Noon: Handgun Clinic (carport)
1pm - 2:30pm: Static live fire (pistol range)
2:30 - 4pm: Briefing and Move & Shoot live fire (pistol range)

Saturday, 10/22
Rifle Program
8:30am - 1pm: Live fire (rifle range)

Handgun Program
9am - 1pm: Live fire (pistol range)

Again, these times are approximate and may change as weather conditions and participation warrant. I have been doing the same presentation on rifles for a number of years now, so if you would like me to cover new or different material, just mention it in the comments or send me an email!

Let's begin with the easiest, first. Texas is awash in shooting and outdoor stores, and you really shouldn't have any trouble using this option. There are a lot of sporting goods stores on the south side of Dallas and in the towns all the way down I-45 to Corsicana. A quick internet search should return several options, and you might want to identify a couple before you leave home. Next, there is a store in Corsicana, Brinson PowerSports, that has a generally reliable stock of major calibers, although ammo is not listed on their website. I'd suggest calling first and asking if they have what you're looking for. The physical address and phone number is:

Honestly, sourcing ammo locally seems like the most logical choice to me, but for those of you with special needs, it's pretty easy to fly with ammunition in your checked baggage. Here I am speaking in very general terms and it is incumbent upon YOU to check in advance with your airline, confirm the requirements, and comply with them.

Southwest Airlines is a popular option into the Dallas area, and I have found them to be gun friendly as far as these things go. Here is what I found on the Southwest Airlines Special Baggage webpage:

Packing Ammunition Small arms ammunition for personal use (provided it is properly packed) is permissible in checked baggage only.

The ammunition may be placed in the same container as the firearm and must be securely packed in cardboard (fiber), wood, or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Ammunition Limits
When checking ammunition, Customers are limited to 11 pounds (ammunition plus container) per person. Gunpowder (black powder) and primers or percussion caps are not allowed in checked or carryon baggage.

Loose ammunition or loose loaded magazines and/or clips are not allowed. Paintballs must be packaged in a leak-proof container and will be subject to limited release.

So my read is that ammunition in its original cardboard container is all you need, and it does not have to be locked inside another container inside your bag as required for a firearm, and you are allowed up to 11 pounds carried in this fashion. Although the instructions are silent on declaring the ammunition to airline personnel, again as you must do when transporting a firearm, I think it's probably a good idea to do so. You may or may not be allowed to check your baggage curbside when traveling with ammunition, so be prepared for a little extra time at the counter. Again, this is my interpretation and as we all know I am mostly full of shit, so check for yourselves.

Every airline has a section like this on their website, usually found in the baggage section, and you may have to dig around a little to find it. I also recommend printing your specific airline's policy and bringing it with you on the trip, just in case you need to help the ticket agent understand how to do their job. I will say in all the years of flying all over the country to matches, I have never once had any problem with airline personnel and their rules and have always found them well informed and helpful.

Finally, if you are really a special needs shooter, our bestest buddy and pal and host RancherBob has offered to allow people to ship their ammunition to the ranch. I would recommend this only in very unique circumstances where very specific ammunition is required and neither of the other, simpler options will work. If this is you, then contact me for details. I have shipped ammunition via UPS in the past and it works, but there are strict packaging and labeling requirements and also necessitates you visit an actual UPS location rather than a retail shipping store. Also remember, you cannot ship ammunition via USPS.

Questions? Just ask!

Musical Interlude
Foo Fighters with Nandi. This is really worth watching!

Is that great or what?

I've included this video from the She Equips Herself gal before, but figured it's time for a refresher on gun store etiquette.

Cigar of the Week
This week the Cigar Vixen reviews the Fuente Hemingway Short Story. Weasel Approved!!

Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who make a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

Ammo Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal WTM

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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