Gun Thread: Post 2022 NoVaMoMe Discussion and Analysis Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Woo Hoo! The 2022 NoVaMoMe is in the books. What a great time! My buddy bluebell and I would like to thank all those who attended, with an extra big thank you to those who helped by volunteering at the registration and raffle ticket tables, and those who donated prizes for the fabulous raffle table. We couldn't have done it without you! If you happen to be one of the attendees, please feel free to discuss your experience in the comments below, however, please do not disclose the location as we'd like to possibly use it again some time.

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

Shelving Starter Kit - courtesy Quarter Twenty

Gun stuff? You want gun stuff? Well, you have to read through some MoMe stuff first, and there will be a test at the end. No cheating and skipping the MoMe stuff!

Holy Shitballs! Another year and another NoVaMoMe with my pal bluebell and about 70 of our pals. The temps were cool and the sky cloudy but nothing dampens the spirit of a MoMe. I absolutely believe you are judged by the company you keep, and in that regard I am a very lucky guy. Very lucky indeed. Do I really need to keep saying it? A MoMe, any MoMe is something to be treasured. It was great to see our NoVaMoMe regulars again, and to meet and get to know a bunch of new attendees. Did anyone not have a good time? The food and drinks were outstanding but as always the company was the best.

We have so much help each year some official thanks are in order.

First, our volunteers: Hrothgar, Jinx the Cat, sharon (willow's apprentice), Physics Geek, PaleoCon2008, Julie S., Doof, McGyver, Theodore, MYSB, chique d'afrique, Lars S. and his wife Amy, and Matt H a lurker and soon to be commenter who is thinking up a nic. We cannot thank these people enough and seriously could not make the event happen without them taking turns at the registration and prize tables. It is a huge help and we really appreciate it!

Next we have those who donated door prizes: Muad'dib (mugs and homemade maple syrup), Jewells (handmade bracelets), IrishEi (patriotic bracelets from the VFM), Moron Author Mattski (4 of his books), blake (2 handmade cutting boards with conditioning oil), Iris (lots of stuff - AOSHQ Moron Horde hat, a copy of the "Cornered Cat" book, Trump bookmarks, Biden "I did that!" stickers, pirate flags from Jesse, and lots of other stuff that I can't remember), and finally Quarter Twenty (for the Ace of Spades starter shelving kit) - see pic above. There are likely others who brought things that I am forgetting, and if so please accept a) our thanks, and 2) apologies for not recognizing you by name!

Update: Special thanks to Ben Had for generously providing everyone with their first raffle ticket!!

Now the question you all are waiting for, the big, big "winner" of the Dream Date with Weasel is Julie S and I cannot wait to shoot with this delightful 'ette! That's right, Julie S. (and chaperone/guest if shes likes) will come to WeaselAcres for a day of shooting and personalized rifle and handgun instruction. But wait, the magical day isn't over! That evening we'll have dinner at a very good Mexican place in Appomattox.

No post-NoVaMoMe discussion and analysis would be complete without recognizing my friend bluebell. Over the years I could not have found a better buddy and partner in crime for all of our wacky blog exploits, and every single time we get together I'm reminded of just how special a person she is. I mean, all y'all are cool and everything but bluebell is the best!

Finally, a big thank you to Mr. O'Spades for providing a forum for this unique community, and an extra big thank you to each and every one of you who chose to spend an afternoon with your online friends. Please feel free to consider this an open thread for discussing your NoVaMoMe experience!

OK, just kidding about the test. HA HA HA! Fake test! Now on to the gun stuff!

Secret Mission #2 Part Dos
Last week I mentioned shooting with some of our Gun Thread pals, CBD, RI Red and Scuba_Dude. Any time you're shooting with fun people you can't help but have a fun time and this was no exception. I consider myself very fortunate to have had this opportunity, and asked each of them if they cared to write about the day from their own perspectives. Here's what they had to say, and because there are a lot of nice things said about me, I am including them in their entirety!

RI Red

After our outing in NH last week, Weasel asked if any of us would like to do a write up. Is a bear Catholic? So, random thoughts:

Having a MiniMoMe is great. One with guns, even better. One where Weasel calls the shots and dispenses knowledge? MoronCard priceless! The forecast was iffy - scattered showers throughout the day. After an Americana Diner breakfast, we repaired to the range, where it was ... raining. No prob, the 25-300 yard range has a covered firing line. Great place to talk guns and shoot. Weasel did some schooling.

CBD's Lee-Enfield in .303 British proved remarkably soft shooting. He and Scuba Dude did first shot hits on the 100 yard gong, off hand. Your intrepid reporter did not. Aging eyes and iron sights is my well-used story. Zero was checked on various long guns and the rain stopped for the next four hours. Like the lower range, we had the upper completely to ourselves. It has a table, tank trap obstacles, tractor tires and graduated rests for shooting at various heights as various police, military and PRS shooters train there. We started with the bench rest.

The usual order is to start at about 300 yards, then move to 525 where steel sits in front of a huge glacial erratic (that's a boulder, for those in Rio Linda). Scoob's Savage and CBD's AR-10 made short work of them and we moved out further.

Last year, Scoob hit the 876 and, with Weasel's tutelage, this year finally graduated to the 1000 yard club. Not bad for a .308 round. Yep, he had a sh*t-eating grin.

First time at a long range and skipping over dozens of targets at 600, 700, and 800 yards, CBD homed in on the 876 yd target. With a final elevation call by yours truly, we all called "Hit!" and were rewarded with a loud "clang!" a couple seconds later. It's great to have audible rewards.

Not satisfied with that, CBD continued ringing that gong, with multiple hits in a row. Again, not bad for a .308 round from a 16" barrel! He celebrated with an impressive mag dump.

This was my first time shooting 6.5 suppressed at long range and no one could see my impacts anywhere I was shooting. Damn! Weasel finally said to take it out to 1100 where we could at least see dirt impacts on the berm. I set elevation per my ballistic table, Weasel called the wind, and, one shot, no dirt, just an eventual "clang". Yes, I borrowed Scoob's sh*t-eating grin.

1100 yd targets

As the clouds started reappearing, Weasel attempted a world class 1100 yard iron sight .303 shot. No joy, but a great picture. So, we broke out an AR-15 and a Garand and started shooting at a blue cross painted on the big glacial erratic/boulder. The 5.56 round made small puffs of rock dust and the .30-'06 made large ones. Very satisfying.

525 yd targets

Then the rain started and we packed up, policing a small mountain of brass. But after dinner that night and Weasel's post-action review (he should charge admission), we were rewarded with a Chamber of Commerce double rainbow. Seeing it as a sign, CBD immediately purchased a bottle of New Hampshire maple syrup, mumbling something about breakfast foods and Manhattans.

Next up, our pal Scoob shares his thoughts on the day.

Fun Day Shooting with some Morons.

I will not bore you with the drive up to RI Red's hometown or meeting up with the others.

After a really nice breakfast at a RI Red Recommended diner we set off to the range with overcast skies and a light rain. Temps IIRC were in the mid 60's. We checked in and headed to the 100 - 300 yard range to make sure our rifles were sighted in. I was hitting the targets at 100 and 300 with no problem.

CBD had brought along a couple of his toys, one of them being a Lee-Enfield from the early 1900's. I forget what it was chambered in but CBD let me give it a try. Very nice shooting rifle, would love to own one in the future.

So by this time the rain had let up and RI Red took us up to the upper level of the range where we would be putting our rifles and ourselves to the test.

Getting up to the top we unloaded the gear and I was the first one to give it a go. The previous year RI Red coached me to hitting the target at 867 yards. Now I had Weasel-san spotting for me and he had me immediately trying for the target at 1,007 yards. Sadly I was getting a lot of "No Data" or " I did not see anything". Wound up it was my fault, I was shooting at the wrong target. I was shooting at the target at 1,100 yards. Amazing how close the two targets appear to be through the scope.

Situation rectified, with excellent spotting and a much better bag at the rear of my rifle I soon hit that target at 1007 yds. I saw the target move from the impact but damn, the sound of the clang a second or two later was the best!! I called it a day for my rifle pretty much after that and I then started to help spot for CPD and RI Red as they put their rifles through their paces.

I will leave RI Red and CBD to tell of their day at the range.

My take aways from the day is I really need a better bag for the back of my rifle. Something bigger and steadier than what I have. Another was working on my spotting skills and reading wind. I learned to not just concentrate on the target but look at the everything up to and around the target. There may be no wind at the target, but a 100 yards or more in front of it you might have a right to left 5 mph wind.

Oh, and RI Red had brought a beautiful Garand that I had fun hitting a boulder at 525 yards until that "PING" signified I was out.

Looking forward to doing this again.

Thanks RI Red for the hospitality and a memorable time.

Scuba Dude

Lastly but not leastly, here's what our pal CBD had to say:

Unlike the others, I brought a semi-auto rifle (A dreaded AR-10 .308!) that isn't really designed to be as accurate as a bolt-action rifle set up for long distances. And I had a pretty basic scope on it, so I wasn't expecting to outshoot the others. But it is nice and heavy, so recoil was negligible. I figured I could miss everything but still look impressive by missing really fast!

But Weasel and RI Red had different plans for me! Weasel isn't just a pretty face...he knows a tremendous amount about precision long-range shooting, and even better; he can explain the concepts very well, even to a shooter who is relatively new to the rifle game. There is arcana in long-distance shooting that is amazing...bullet seating changes based on daily measurements of the chamber? Wow! But there is also a basic set of techniques that, when understood, allow some pretty amazing results. Just setting up behind the rifle the same way every single shot, and keeping the rifle stable (that rear bag is hugely important!) makes a big difference. Reading the wind, understanding the effects of gravity over long distances, humidity and elevation, even taking into account the Coriolis effect will eliminate some of the variables that very quickly add up to missing...sometimes by a lot. It sounds complicated, and at the highest levels, when missing the 10 ring once will put you out of contention, every single one of the dozens of variables has to be controlled. And maybe that isn't for everyone, but at a more relaxed level, hanging around with some friends on an 1,100 yard range in a beautiful part of the country, with a bunch of fun guns to shoot, getting some excellent coaching? It's hard to beat.

But back to the shooting! Weasel and RI Red conspired to get my shots on target at 867 yards, with a combination of excellent wind calls, some good advice on how to adjust my scope (math was involved), and excellent background advice...some of which actually stuck! Once RI Red got me on target, I was able to relax and just concentrate on shooting correctly, without having to worry about all that other stuff. And what a feeling! Firing three quick shots and hitting at that distance is quite a thrill, even for a 29-year old!

But it is unfortunately addictive, and I am already planning another rifle. Or two! Weasel pointed out that shooting a .22LR requires most of the same skill, but at much lower cost and complexity. So even if you don't have access to 1,000 yard ranges and don't feel like getting a high-power rifle, any number of accurate .22LR rifles are available at a reasonable cost, and the ammo is much less expensive.

Now...about that 1,100 yard target...

Again, a cannot thank this group of shooters enough for making me look good! I had a great time and can't wait for the next trip shooting together!

I noticed this question from our pal A.H.Lloyd and a follow-up from Kindltot in an earlier thread today and thought I'd re-post the exchange here.

Pre-gun thread question: There's a lot of nonsense on the web about whether Spanish M1916 Mausers that have been rechambered for 7.62 can safely fire NATO or .308. Some wags are insisting that they were converted to 7.62 CETME, which was a milder round.

Other than weirdos on forums, I can't find any actual documentation for this, but I can find documentation that they remained in Spanish service for decades and Spain used 7.62 NATO ammo. Also, I can't believe that an action designed for 7x57mm Mauser couldn't handle .308.

Thoughts?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 12, 2022 08:44 AM (llXky)

and...

FWIW: the Mausers converted from 8mm should be fine to use 7.62 NATO, the ones converted from 7mm are considered too weak for full powered 7.62. and IIRC the CETME round was originally loaded lighter when both were on the market it was considered safer to get the 8mm conversions, the Mod 1943. However, the Spanish would not have issued a rifle that was dangerous, even to reserves. I suspect the main issue would be stretching of the chamber and bad head spacing before a catastrophic failure. Probably. Without really bad luck.

I do wish I had picked up some of the 7mm conversions to re-barrel in something fun, way back then it would have been worth it. I always have hankered for a .45 ACP carbine.
Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2022 09:06 AM (xhaym)

I will play it safe by recommending only shooting ammunition that matches the chamber exactly, but do recognize sometimes substitutions are made. What do you guys and gals think?

Live and Learn

Next up, our pal Blake shares a short day on the range in a match.

Well, my day at a local competition started and ended early.

I showed up, anticipating a fun match, and, it was going to be great shoot. Nice warm sunny day, mild breeze, and a great course had been set up! I waited as several shooters ran the course, then when my turn came, I set up per the rules and at the buzzer was off!

I was shooting pretty well, accurately, and, then, went around a corner, too close, hand caught the corner, and, I broke the 180 rule.

Drat.

I stopped, looked at the RSO, said, "I broke the 180, didn't I?" He nodded in the affirmative, so, I went through the clearing and holstering drill and called it a day. I was offered to continue shooting, which I declined. I'm an experienced shooter, and, the 180 rule might as well be on a stone tablet, as far as I'm concerned. I stuck around, did some taping and scoring, then headed home.

My first DQ, darn it.

However, one bright spot in the whole thing was my trigger discipline. I shoot a 1911 in these competitions, and, had my finger been on the trigger as I went around the corner, very likely, I would have added a negligent discharge to the 180 sin. My pistol was pointed in a safe direction at the time, but, launching a round down range just would really have ruined my day. So, half a point for that, I guess.

Next match, Tuesday evening. Stay tuned!

Excellent report, Blake! Sooner or later, everybody has a day like this and fortunately your trigger discipline prevented having a bad day become a badder day. Also, kudos to you for being a good sport and sticking around to help run the match. Very nicely done!

Shotgun Reloading
I received the following question from someone we'll call "Randy" who was referred by Gun Thread regular Bifbewalski. Unfortunately I cannot offer much help because I have precisely 0.0 hours of experience loading shotgun shells.

I am interested in reloading shotgun shells. My father in law left me his gear but I need advice in getting started. I want to reload 12 gauge subsonic 4 buck rounds for my salvo12. Any help would be most appreciated.

I will say the first step is getting a good reloading manual with shotgun shells covered and reading it before you begin. How about you all - any advice for Randy? Perhaps the name of a good reloading manual you like?

This week the She Equips Herself Gal reviews a couple concealed carry options.

Available at Cigars Cigars International for about $2 each in bundles of 20, they're affordable and a great deal about 95% of the time. The other 5% of the time you might get a dud, but all-in-all I like them. Nice and strong and won't break the bank!

Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal WTM. Good one!!

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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