Gun Thread: It's June, Damnit! Edition

It's June (Cleaver)

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Welp, I'm back from secret mission numero two, and all that's left now is the MoMe. The NoVaMoMe! I know I speak for my bestest blog buddy bluebell when I say we are really looking forward to next Saturday and seeing all of you people!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

Serious shooters evaluating serious conditions

I had the opportunity to shoot with some of our Gun Thread pals on Friday. What a great time! It was a rifles-only day and we had the the range, with targets out to 1,100 yards, entirely to ourselves. Amazing. And the weather cooperated bigly, with light and variable winds just to keep it interesting. I don't care what activity you are pursuing, there is nothing quite like spending the day doing something you bigly enjoy with people you really like.

So how did we do? I'm here to say we have some real shooters in this group! A good variety of rifles in various calibers; .308 Winchester, 6.5 Creedmoor, .223/5.56 and .303 British were available, and all put to good use. We started on the 100-300 yd range as a warm-up, and soon adjourned to a firing point with targets from 500 - 1,100 yards, and got down to the business of making the targets look stupid.

If you have spent much time on the ol' Gun Thread you have heard me encourage practicing with a purpose, and this was no exception. Every single time I get behind a gun, even when shooting for funsies as we were doing on this trip, I am focusing on some element of basic marksmanship. I have had the good fortune to fire tens of thousands of rounds and I still concentrate on the basics, whether it be setup behind the rifle, breathing and trigger control, target alignment and wind estimation - all of the elements of good fundamental marksmanship. During this exercise, we discussed these fundamentals as various members of the group were shooting and talked through what worked and what didn't work.

Q: Weasel, so what didn't work?
A: Well, Weasel trying to hit an 18 inch plate at 1,100 yards with iron sights on a Lee-Enfield didn't work.

hmmm... chicken bowl or spaghettios...

Hey! It's a really long way!

Despite embarrassing myself and shaming my ancestors, it was a truly outstanding day with some great amigos and I cannot wait to do it again!

I'll invite my shooting buddies to chime in and share their thoughts on the day.

First up, our pal WTM shares his experience with the Ruger P345 and dry firing.

While in the vault looking to retrieve the S&W "lemon squeezer", I uncovered my Ruger P345, which I bought in 1995. I got the last one in stock.

I'm a big fan of Ruger firearms and have used them extensively for about 45 years now. However, their "P" series was not a landmark in pistol design and has since been discontinued. Some swear by their P series and the P345 has garnered a lot of praise, being considered a primo carry gun. It is accurate, compact, comfortable, and lighter than a 1911. Recoil in this gun is surprisingly light, given its own light weight. So what's my problem with it? Two things.

First, this pistol is very particular in its ammo. Ruger says to use only factory ammo, but I consider that nonsense. I've reloaded .45ACP for well over 40 years and have fired thousands of rounds of it with nary a misfire. But, using my pet load of Unique powder under a 230gr HCRN, I encountered numerous misfires in this 8+1 pistol. I gathered the misfires, ran them all through one of my 1911's, and every one of them fired. Curiously, I find that handloads utilizing small-primer brass DO fire reliably. To be fair to Ruger, my Glock 21 is also a finicky eater of .45ACP handloads, even though it too will digest the small-primer reloads reliably. Both the P345 and the Glock 21 produce shallower primer indentations than does the 1911, but why this circumstance affects handloads and not factory ammo is a mystery. Is there a difference in the primers? I keep the P345's and the Glock's magazines loaded with Winchester White Box, but factory ammo is too scarce and too pricey these days to use for regular target practice.

The second shortcoming, and I learned this the hard way in 2018, is that the P345, if dry-fired without a magazine, will invariably be damaged. Mine was, and it required repair by the factory. Even though there was no charge for the repair, shipping a handgun by insured UPS is not inexpensive. It's my fault for not having read the owner's manual in the first place, which does warn against doing that (see excerpt below), but, having dry-fired my 1911's many times to break them in, I did not suspect that dry-firing the P345 even once (on a whim, I did so 4 times after cleaning) without a magazine could cause damage. And this was a RUGER, for Heaven's sake, a manufacturer whose firearms are legendary in their strength and reliability (their revolvers are, anyway). Quite the disappointment in Ruger, and I marvel that they intentionally designed their P series with these faults. At $34 per, I don't keep empty magazines for this on hand.

It is of course a double-action semiautomatic, but when fired in single-action mode, the trigger has quite a bit of creep that takes some getting used to. Otherwise, it's a very nice gun, but now I am a bit paranoid about its reliability, and that's not a good feeling to have for a firearm that may one day be called upon to defend home and family, if not person. Right now, one of my 1911's is used for home security, whereas the P345 had that honor from 1995-2018, before it was dry-fired that one episode. Now it lives in its box in the vault. Live and learn - and expect to pay $$ for the life lesson.

Great info, thanks WTM! What was your impression of the service you received from the Ruger factory?

Scientific Testing the RI Red Way
Next up, our pal RI Red shares some scientific measuring he performed recently regarding the effect of a suppressor on muzzle velocity.

Results for suppressor muzzle velocity and accuracy. A bit nerdy, so picture equals lots of words. TL, DR - suppressor slightly faster, just as accurate.

5/16/22, 80 degrees, no wind, 100 yards
Muzzle brake v. Suppressor
6.5 Creedmoor, Hornady 140 g. ELD-Match
Hodgdon 4350
From Caldwell Lead Sled

Hornady brass, Winchester LR primers
Top left target: 11 o'clock just off the paper, .800" group. Muzzle brake.
MV 2486fps, SD 24.7, ES 73

10 o'clock just off bullseye, .850" group. Suppressed.
MV 2529fps, SD 27, ES 73. POI shift -4", 43 FPS gained.

Browning nickel-plated brass, CCI BR-2 primers
Bottom left target: 11 o'clock from bullseye, hit 7 o'clock off middle left target, .574" group. Muzzle brake.
MV 2457fps, SD 14.9,ES 45

10 o'clock from bullseye, .610" group. Suppressed.
MV 2469fps, SD 3.8, ES 10. POI shift -3.5", 12 FPS gained.

Lessons learned:
1. Bipod and sandbag is more stable than lead sled. There is a lot of play, comparatively, in the sled. Heart beat and breathing were more noticeable, and it was not a comfortable shooting position.
2. The reloads in Browning nickel-plated are better all around than the Hornady brass.
3. The CCI Bench Rest 2 primers appear to give a more uniform ignition and burn than the Winchester Large Rifle.
4. Accuracy is virtually the same between brake and suppressor.
5. POI shift for suppressor is -3.5' to -4". No horizontal shift.
5. Suppressor increased MV slightly.
6. Best, most uniform results are from suppressed Browning nickel-plated brass with BR-2 primers.

And this, folks, is how that is done. Very nice, RI Red!

What are your thoughts on the muzzle brake v. suppressor results? Surprised?

Our pal blaster reports on some gunsmithing for the Ruger P95.

I finally found an adapter plate for a Ruger P95. This was a struggle though. The frame mounted de-cock lever is on both sides and that made it not fit in the slide pusher. Had to take the extractor out to get one side off and that was enough. And getting the plate seated in the dovetail mount took a lot of hammering. I have a little gunsmith hammer with a nylon head and ultimately I got it properly seated.

I like the way it came out. But I don't know that I will do the other P95. It was a LOT of work. If I do I will have it done by a gunsmith. Next to see how it shoots. This one is very prone to limp-wristing and I just added mass (not much but some) to the slide.

Here is the video which is also embedded in the article linked above.

Very interesting, GWB! Thank you!

Gun Basics 101
This week the She Equips Herself Gal has recommendations on racking the slide on a pistol the easy way. If you're having trouble with slide function, take a look!

Cigar of the Week
Our pal rhomboid brings it with another excellent cigar review. Thanks rhomboid!

Herewith another see-gar review, this time of the Montecristo White Series. So far in my still young-ish exploration, it leads in the category of a mild yet flavorful cigar with perfect construction, though that Joya de Nicaragua Antano Connecticut I reviewed earlier may be a tie-vote for that category.

Montecristo White Series - a well-established standard for quality mild-medium cigars. This one in the corona vitola (size), formally the No. 3 Especial, 5.5" X 44. Ecuador-grown Connecticut wrapper, Nicaraguan and Dominican long fillers. I'm getting mostly coronas now. Shorter smoke, and the shape tends to emphasize the qualities of the wrapper due to proportions of wrapper/filler, so easier to choose your flavor profile more reliably. Ample rich smoke, smooth, some mild flavor hints, I'd say in the nut and wood category. Perfect construction and burn. Available online for around $6/stick, and up. Highly recommended for newbies or those looking for a very good mild cigar. Oh - and Colt Magnum Carry revolver. Also highly recommended, but slightly more scarce and expensive.

Excellent review, thanks Rhomboid! Anyone else care to share a review of a cigar they liked or even disliked?

I saw this comment on today's First-World Problems Thread, too late respond before the Food Thread went up:

My problem, my favorite cigar brand unerringly make a cigar of great construction, draw and taste at a reasonable price. They also glue the bands just enough to rip the wrapper about 50 percent of the time. While smoking the last bits of a cigar is a pleasure a cracked wrapper makes me sad.

Posted by: USNtakim deplorable, now with ultra maga at June 05, 2022 03:47 PM (0OmEj)

PROTIP: If you aren't already, smoke the cigar until you're close to the band. Sometimes the heat will loosen the glue enough to aid in removal.

This week Cigar Vixen shows us the different ways to cut a cigar.

Registration for the NoVaMoMe is now closed. Hope to see you Saturday!

The social and cultural event of the season, NoVaMoMe 2022 is on the calendar! That's right, you people have a chance to meet many of your online pals on Saturday, June 11th beginning at 1pm until dark, or such time as it gets busted up by the cops. We have an exciting location in the Northern Virginia area which allows extended time for visiting. Admission is $25 which includes food and soft drinks, with a cash bar. This year the menu is BBQ chicken and pork with the usual sides and cookies for dessert. Appetizers begin just after 1pm and dinner is 3pm. Want to be one of the cool kids? Just send an email to novamome at protonmail dot cee oh emm, pass the rigorous screening process to obtain registration details, then sign up to attend! Easy-Peasy!

Each year, I spend a fair amount of time haranguing people to come to a MoMe. Any MoMe! I cannot overemphasize how much fun these things are, and how much we want YOU to come! We plan for the crowd in general but also consider the needs of the introvert lurkers and provide plenty of potted plants for those so inclined to hide behind. All kidding aside, you are completely welcome to slink-in, eat, drink and people-watch, and then slink-out. It is a 100% zero pressure event. If you can handle a backyard picnic, you can definitely handle this.

Win a Dream Date with Weasel!
Back by tepid demand, a separate raffle for the Gun Thread gift basket will be held. This fabulous prize includes an entire day of shooting and personalized one-on-one handgun & rifle coaching and instruction at Weasel Acres on a mutually agreeable date with yours truly. The lucky winner will be able to not only bring and shoot their own weapons, but also try out a variety of WeaselWeapons using WeaselAmmo!

We will end the day with dinner at a good Mexican place in nearby Appomattox. Pretty much a dream date with Weasel! The winner will be responsible for their travel to and from Central Virginia, hence the separate drawing.

Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

This week's mailbag entry is from our pal WTM:

Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

posted by Weasel at 07:00 PM

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