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November 12, 2010

Commenters on the Problems With Overturning DADT

Some interesting stuff. All from people in the military, who, as I've said, should be the voices that carry furthest here.


AmishDude:

Here is why DADT functions: Gays don't get protected status for being gay. They can't sue or otherwise demand special treatment because of their status as homosexual because they can't admit to it.

Repeal DADT and that goes out the window. Now, any part of the military, from calling a cadet a "pansy" in boot camp to the whole macho ethos will have to be eliminated because it's "discrimination."

I hate to bring out my "the focus of evil in the modern world is the legal profession" card but it's true. Gay soldiers will become an untouchable protected class. To see how that works, see Hasan, Maj. Nidal.

Moreover, women who join will have to belong to a lesbians-only club. In some sense the gay men will likely be marginalized and the motivation to join the military just won't be there. But that isn't true for lesbians. I have a feeling that for a straight woman, a military that permits open homosexuality will be like a 24/7 gym class.

Don:

he best thing about DADT is it allowed gay people to serve but let everyone maintain the polite fiction that there is nothing "wrong" and everyone could get along. It forced the bigots to keep their mouths shut, and let the brass punish them if they didn't, and it allowed gay people to serve as long as they didn't cause any waves. It's a win-win situation right now.

DADT won't ruin the military. I do believe there are going to be discipline problems and some drama queens will get taken behind some storage sheds. In the end, people who wish to serve will follow the DADT policy by default, especially in the field, just to avoid uncomfortable situations. I served in both the Navy and Army, I knew plenty of guys who I assumed where probably gay but they where far outnumbered by the no-neck football jock stereotypes you see in every teen movie ever made. Those are the groups that will have trouble while the other 90% of the people will just do what it takes to get the job done regardless of the circumstances they find themselves in.

I honestly feel bad for anyone who assumes they can make it through bootcamp while being "loud and proud". Learn how to fight before you try it guys. I'm only half kidding, but there will be serious intimidation and ostracizing going on, no matter how disciplined the recruits are.

Empire of Jeff:

I joined in 1993, right after DADT. The primary difference was that when in enlisting, the recruiters had to line through two questions on a questionnaire dealing with homosexuality (they hadn't even changed the forms yet).

That was the don't ask part.

The don't tell part is a little murkier. There were a couple of flamers who essentially everyone suspected of being gay, but I don't recall anyone raising their hand.

And I certainly don't agree with this, "well, everybody knew soldier X was gay, and nobody cared, because her was so fucking high-speed."

Bullshit. Combat arms MOS in particular would not welcome the introduction of openly gay soldiers into the ranks. Call it what you like, but that's the way it is.

Do you have any idea how much Sexual Harassment training I had to endure due to a Drill Sergeant raping a female trainee half a world away, and me being in an MOS barred to women?

It was fucking witch hunt time, as female soldiers used the new policies to file or threaten charges against superiors, ex-lovers, or coworkers they didn't like.

How many claims of harassment and/or discrimination will today's soldiers have to endure due to gay soldiers deciding filing a complaint would be a good way to get revenge, or a quick ticket back to Ft. Living Room?

Another objection is lodged by several people:

In practice, gays will not be assigned to combat units, where they would be more of a problem in unit cohesion; instead, they'll be given non-combat jobs.

Which means that straight men, who would expect to have the occasional non-combat assignment, will just get more combat assignments -- which isn't fair. Another poster brings up that this is just what happened as more women joined the Navy; the women got the land assignments, meaning men wouldn't get them, and would tend to spend almost all their time at sea. Whereas before they'd swing the occasional patch of land-based duty.

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posted by Ace at 04:07 PM

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