Intermarkets' Privacy Policy
Support


Donate to Ace of Spades HQ!


Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
CBD:
cbd at cutjibnewsletter.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com


Recent Entries
Absent Friends
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024
Captain Hate 2023
moon_over_vermont 2023
westminsterdogshow 2023
Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022
Dave In Texas 2022
Jesse in D.C. 2022
OregonMuse 2022
redc1c4 2021
Tami 2021
Chavez the Hugo 2020
Ibguy 2020
Rickl 2019
Joffen 2014
AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published. Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me
Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups






















« Ward Churchill Expects To Be Fired Within Hours, Will Sue | Main | Neighbors Say Laurie David A Raging Ecomaniac »
July 24, 2007

Deleted: The New York Times Reported TNR Had "NEAR Certainty" Baghdad Diarist Was A Soldier

A follow-up too big to tuck in as an update to the post.

The original NYT story ran thus:

The magazine granted anonymity to the writer to keep him from being punished by his military superiors and to allow him to write candidly, Mr. Foer said. He said that he had met the writer and that he knows with “near certainty” that he is, in fact, a soldier.

Note the quotes. The reporter is claiming here to not be paraphrasing, but taking the subject's words verbatim from his lips.

TNR objected and claimed on its site they were "absolutely" certain he was a soldier.

But note Foer does not claim to have been misquoted.

TNR readers may have seen this story in the New York Times today. The story says that TNR knows with "near certainty" that Scott Thomas is a soldier in Iraq. In fact, we know this with absolute certainty.

The NYT dutifully changed the story (without making note it was correcting what is a blatant error, assuming it was an error, as is its practice) and has now omitted the "with 'near certainty'" line from its piece.

"The Editors" (Foer, I imagine, chief among them) wrote this "clarification." They do not claim Foer was misquoted, merely that the quote does not accurately reflect the situation.

So it appears by TNR's tacit admission Foer did say this. It further appears that the NYT changed a killer quote to protect Foer's magazine from Foer's quote.

Why?

Why did the NYT reporter at first believe Foer had expressed only "near certainty" that the man claiming to be a soldier in Baghdad was in fact even a soldier a Baghdad? Where did he get this impression? Are the words in his notebook? May we see them?

Why did Foer only originally say he was "nearly certain" his alleged soldier was even a solider at all?

Why did the NYT alter the story without alerting the public it was doing so, and without explaining the reasons for the alteration?

Has the NYT caved under pressure from TNR to change the quote, with Foer claiming he misspoke and shouldn't have that error held against him? But if that's the case, why did he misspeak? Why was he initially only comfortable giving this "maybe, I think" quasi-verification of his diarist's mere identity?

The Times needs to explain this. So does TNR. And their stories had better fucking match up.

Someone made a rather major error here, and it is actually crucial to the story -- indeed, it's what the NYT used to be in the business of reporting, actual big news -- if Foer was the one who "misspoke."

So I want to know who erred here -- the reporter in his notes/quotes, or Foer in the words he chose to vouch for his "Baghdad" diarist. Neither side is willing to say; the NYT is merely deleting the reference, and TNR "clarifying" without actually assigning blame?

If it was the NYT, fine, but they better goddamn finally admit an error and explain that error.

But I doubt that's what happened. TNR could have said that Foer was misquoted. They didn't. Because you don't stick a knife into someone who's saving your fucking life.

If it was Foer, I want to know why the NYT has changed his actual quote just because he called them on the phone and pleaded "Please don't run that, it's far too damaging to TNR! We only barely survived Stephen Glass for God's sakes!"

Would they be so generous about "helping" the editor of a conservative opinion magazine under scrutiny for running fake stories, I wonder?

Thanks to all the readers, including EC, for pointing this out.

Bonus: IllTemperedCur wonders when Foer could have met this person he knows "with near certainty" to be a soldier:

I still think that the money quote is "He said that he had met the writer". Since Foer is in DC and the diarist is supposedly a currently serving soldier in Iraq, when would they have met? If Foer hasn't traveled to Iraq recently, then the diarist must have been in the US sometime recently! That opens up lots of questions.

The big wedge to knock this down is the timeline.

Certainly it's not implausible the soldier -- or rather, the man we know "with near certainty" is a soldier -- was stateside at some point.

But there are questions. Why was this soldier in DC? How -- and why -- did he contact TNR in the first place? How did TNR establish his bona fides "with near certainty" during a stateside visit, which almost certainly was little more than a brief meet-up?

Screencap: Slublog ran his magic Lexis/Nexis wayback machine and sends this screencap of the story as it appeared originally.

Not that there's a whole lot of doubt about it; TNR itself notes what the story said (while curiously avoiding charging the NYT with an error). Still, best to have one's ducks all in a row when making a serious charge.

I guess. That's what people tell me, anyway.

Damnit: Slublog's screecap includes the line -- and yet my upload of that seems to end before the line, and I can't scroll down to see it. Anyone else having this problem?

I don't understand what's going on with this.

Hmm... Maybe you have to download the screencap and view it in paint-viewer program? When I click on it on my computer I can scroll down and see the whole thing. I just can't seem to do so in that pop-up.

The Obligatory Fake But Accurate Defense: This next quote can't be blamed on Franklin Foer. Or even the NYT. It's just from a commenter in the Plank "clarification" post named diggidy. Doesn't reflect on TNR... except, of course, it does re-state a rather disturbing belief on the left -- including among lefty journalists and pundits -- that the "fake but accurate" standard is a reasonable one:

His byline clearly states that he is a "Freelance Writer". He's a writer not a journalist.

He's capturing the feel of what is happening over there from the personal standpoint of a particular writer not attempting to capture specific facts. The overall story is more important than a series of actual events.

Silly me, I thought "the overall story" was "a series of actual events" accurately recounted.

But the lefties know better. There is truth, which is, let's face it, pretty boring and often disappointing in its refusal to reinforce your deeply held beliefs.

And then there is Truth, which is always satisfying, gratuitously so, almost to the point of pandering.

No wonder they have such a preference for the latter.

Tossing It Out There: I've figured, since the beginning of this, that the story of how "Scott Thomas" got in touch with TNR was fairly simple: "Scott Thomas" was commenter on the TNR blog, who had identified himself as a soldier in Iraq. An editor sent him an email, and thus thus the "Baghdad Diarist" was born.

My Google-Fu is remarkably weak, so I'll leave it to others to see if this leads anywhere.


digg this
posted by Ace at 01:50 PM

| Access Comments




Recent Comments
[i]Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM)[/b][/i][/s][/u]: " James Earl Carter was a meddlesome twat ... The ..."

scampydog: "June Lockhart in Lassie. What the hell is wrong ..."

Citizen Cake: ">>>The natural gas thing was among the regionally ..."

SMOD: "On July 15, 1979, then president Jimmy Carter went ..."

blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1): "Young gals in pj's at the store I sort of get. Guy ..."

The ARC of History!: "[i]What kind of mean shit can the executive branch ..."

Thomas Bender: "@311 >>For details, see the Law & Order episode ..."

TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher: "332 Decency, yet Biden fingerbanged a staffer. Po ..."

naturalfake: "[i]Airline deregulation gave us people wearing paj ..."

Quarter Twenty : "268 Why do I suspect Biden's "eulogy" will involve ..."

eleven: "They'll try to rub the Carter funeral ball sack i ..."

Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden: "Decency, yet Biden fingerbanged a staffer. ..."

Recent Entries
Search


Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
Powered by
Movable Type 2.64