Sponsored Content

Intermarkets' Privacy Policy

Donate to Ace of Spades HQ!

Recent Entries
Absent Friends
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024
Captain Hate 2023
moon_over_vermont 2023
westminsterdogshow 2023
Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022
Dave In Texas 2022
Jesse in D.C. 2022
OregonMuse 2022
redc1c4 2021
Tami 2021
Chavez the Hugo 2020
Ibguy 2020
Rickl 2019
Joffen 2014
AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published. Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me
Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups

ę Good News: The Fourth of July Is A Rightwing Celebration | Main | Awesome: Federal Court Rules Michigan's Law of Nondiscrimination In College Admissions To Be... Unconstitutional Ľ
July 01, 2011

Claim: Romney "Backtracks" From Claim That Obama Made Recession Worse

That's the claim. I think that's false.

Bear in mind, this is MSNBC reporting, too.

Here was Romney in New Hampshire on Monday:
The people of New Hampshire have waited long enough. They want to see good jobs. They want to see rising incomes. They want to see an economy thatís growing again, and the presidentís failed. He did not cause this recession, but he made it worse.

And he said something similar at the New Hampshire debate earlier this month:

He didnít create the recession, but he made it worse and longer.

But at his press conference today in Allentown, PA ó where he was highlighting a company that had closed, after President Obama touted it benefitting from the stimulus ó Romney backtracked on the he-made-it-worse line.

When NBC producer Sue Kroll asked the former Massachusetts governor why he believes that Obamaís policies have made the economy worse ó when the economy is now growing (and not shrinking like it was in 2009), when the Dow is climbing (and no longer in a free-fall like it was in í09), and when the unemployment rate is down a full percentage point from where it was in Oct. í09 ó Romney gave this answer:

I didnít say that things are worse.

Romney went on to say:

What I said was that economy hasnít turned around, that youíve got 20 million Americans out of work, or seriously unemployed; housing values still going down. You have a crisis of foreclosures in this country. The economy, by the way, if you think the economy is great and going well, be my guest.

Yeah this is bullshit. There are two questions here, one more of a matter of opinion (with some fact), the other a mixed question of opinion and fact.

1. Did Obama make the recession longer and deeper and worse by his policies? This is largely a question of opinion. Romney, and virtually all other Republicans, believe the answer is yes.

But for this "gotcha," MSNBC changes the terms of the question:

2. Is the economy currently now worse, in absolute terms, than it was compared to a relevant period, say January 2009? This is actually a bit of an opinion-based question too, but if you're going with certain data (such as GDP growth, or rate of loss of jobs) the question is factual, and the answer is "No."

One can make an argument about that. But it's a long argument, and you wind up setting yourself up for further anklebiting gotchas from the media in making it.

Let me put it this way: If you claim the economy is currently worse in absolute terms than it was during the great fall, the period of rapid job loss and contraction, you'd better have an hourlong power point presentation to break out because the media is immediately going to say, "He's so ignorant, he doesn't know GDP began growing last year." And you'd better be ready to explain why traditional indicators of economic strength or weakness are to be discarded in favor of nontraditional ones.

Note the first question is about a counterfactual scenario: Would the economy be stronger than it actually is but for Obama's incompetency? It compares the current situation to the alt history "current" situation.

The second question is straight-up factual. It compares the real-world current situation to the real-world situation in January 2009.

Different questions. And the fact that Romney can parse between them is a small credit in his favor.

The economy may or may not actually be worse than it was when Obama took office in January 2009; by several methods of measuring the economy, it's not worse per se.

On the other hand, his misbegotten policies have almost certainly destroyed jobs and prevented growth and therefore have prevented a normal economic-rebound recovery, and so yes, he made the recession longer and worse.

Always be careful when citing MSNBC for a "gotcha" involving a Republican candidate.

Extended: I included the rest of Romney's quote. I was trying not to excerpt too much but I guess it's crucial to get that bit in, for context, and to demonstrate that yes, he want on the attack after this.

I actually was just focused on whether or not he backtracked or made inconsistent statements. He did not.

digg this
posted by Ace at 01:02 PM

| Access Comments

Recent Comments
Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden: "Texas is another state looking into the fusion rea ..."

vic: "nood ..."

BurtTC: "The only really big venture capital thing going th ..."

Kindltot: "[i]There really is an activation barrier to very e ..."

Archimedes: "[i]Having participated in projects that involved l ..."

Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden: "FIRST!!!!! ..."

Odysseus: "[i]Odysseus lying on its side sounds like a CBD ar ..."

Count de Monet: "We need a new steel then. Mister, we could use ..."

Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead!: "287 My understanding is, venture capital is whe ..."

DaveA[/i][/b]: "[i]solar power satellites and the concept of beami ..."

Cautious Cal: "Will the Space Elevator have a 13,000th floor? ..."

Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards : "The physics are impossible, due to weight and stru ..."

Recent Entries

Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
Powered by
Movable Type 2.64